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Ex Hire Boat in France.


Josm100

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1 hour ago, Phoenix_V said:

 I would also avoid the euroclassic design mentioned by one poster, they have issues.

Yes, I would agree with that from first hand experience. They do give loads of interior living space but had significant problems with steering and straight line steering capability (wandering, requiring constant attention to what the bow was doing at the expense of admiring the scenery ?) due to the design. We have seen hirers of that style absolutely petrified with what was happening to them as they tried steering the boat to pass you, and one other actually abandoned theirs at another location and refused to continue their holiday because of their experiences.

Roger

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5 hours ago, Phoenix_V said:

those sources I gave are sources of second hand barges! the question is whether to go for recently built and therefore maximizing space or old as in historic and characterful, The standard of fit out/hull condition/extent of wear and tear can vary in either case. We fit two bedrooms and two bathrooms with a decent lounge into 13 metres and the hire boats will do better albeit with less storage, but it is not like living in a house or small flat even, think caravan (european size not US!) The folks on the dba will tell you to go big but over 15m you will run into a host of problems over20 it gets worse and of course larger costs more to buy and to run. I would also avoid the euroclassic design mentioned by one poster, they have issues. This is our layout on a small modern barge.

 

image.png.60906457e8c4d1d7361dcdc4eda11cfd.png

I went back to the link and navigated my way out of the french landing page and found what you were directing me to, I think. Yes there are some good boats on there, Thank you. 

5 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

My understanding is that it was to do with the VNF licence cost. The Brits are used to being charged for use of the waterways whilst they are free I believe in Holland and the Dutch were not used to paying so when VNF introduced charges that cut the numbers down and I think also the increasing cost of fuel. Years ago you could boat down from Holland free spend most of the summer time in France, often with free moorings, free electricity and water from the local commune maybe do some repairs on your boat and so on now you often have to pay for things or face restrictions on your stay. If you are looking for a boat I would go for something less than 15meters. You will find it much easier to moor in the nicest locations.

Thanks, good to know.

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3 hours ago, Athy said:

I think Locaboat's covers unlimited engine hours - we've probably averaged 40 or more hours per week's hire. We, don't leave their boats looking like a pigsty either, but deep cleaning is not something we want to be doing at half past seven or so on the last morning.

 

This line of conversation leads me to suggest: Josm, when you've identified a type of boat which you might like to buy, why not try and hire a similar one for a couple of weeks? This will allow you to form an impression of what you like, and more importantly what you don't like, about it before committing yourself to a purchase. 

 

 

That's a good idea and something I was considering. Thanks.

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52 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

I went back to the link and navigated my way out of the french landing page and found what you were directing me to, I think. Yes there are some good boats on there, Thank you. 

Thanks, good to know.

I am  a bit late to this thread but we had a barge on the continent for 18 years. We brought it in Belgium and that was lucky because it needed a lot of work and equipment which was much more easily obtainable and at much better prices than France. We were lucky in that the previous owner was well known in Antwerp and we had to promise to look after it. For the last 11 years we left it for the winter in burgundy. We did moor at H2O in the old lock for 3 years and apart from messing about with the electricity supply it was ok but we never had any work done by them. The other yard in St Jean de Losne Blanquerts has a much better reputation for small boats and the dry dock run by Atelier Fluvial for larger boats. There are many more marinas and places for cruisers on the R. Saone and Evans Marina at Migennes is very helpful and run by an Englishman.

As said you need an ICC certificate for any private boat and an Irish license is acceptable. With an Irish passport you have freedom of movement in Europe without restrictions but if your wife has an American one then restrictions apply.

There are lot of small cruisers and ex hire boats used by the New Zealanders and Australians and a good site to look for these is Boatshed Bourgogne. At your budget I’m afraid it will be an old boat but there are always people who need to sell, however you will not be able to afford many surveys so when you do start looking be careful At least a small cruiser is not difficult to have pulled out of the water.

The canals of Burgundy are ideal for safe cruising and offer lovely countryside and interesting places to visit hence the large number of hotel boats on these waterways.

52 minutes ago, Josm100 said:
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On 13/06/2020 at 23:48, Josm100 said:

Hi everyone. My wife and I are considering a few years on the continent on the canals and rivers.

The UK is not that bad - here are a couple of Liveaboards, well within your budget and ideal for a bit of coastal hopping, you could take a couple of years going around the coast in a luxury (heated and insulated) comfortable boat.

 

Proper boats :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/steel-passagemaker/ad-55598

 

I've been mulling over this one for some time, but I've already got two boats.

£45,000 or offers (and its in Cork !!!)

 

51c8bcdc-c2f0-49fd-b343-1bda5e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

51c8bec2-75f0-4310-8305-28c25e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

or this one :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/converted-danish-trawler/ad-107405

In North Wales and at £30,000 plenty of money left.

'Modernisation' needed to suit your taste but money left in the budget.

 

204780c8-e012-47fa-a45c-7a6f368a3ce3_large2000.jpg

 

ba97d3e1-40e4-4943-b60f-4c1bd6c73a2a_large2000.jpg

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54 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The UK is not that bad - here are a couple of Liveaboards, well within your budget and ideal for a bit of coastal hopping, you could take a couple of years going around the coast in a luxury (heated and insulated) comfortable boat.

 

Proper boats :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/steel-passagemaker/ad-55598

 

I've been mulling over this one for some time, but I've already got two boats.

£45,000 or offers (and its in Cork !!!)

 

51c8bcdc-c2f0-49fd-b343-1bda5e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

51c8bec2-75f0-4310-8305-28c25e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

or this one :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/converted-danish-trawler/ad-107405

In North Wales and at £30,000 plenty of money left.

'Modernisation' needed to suit your taste but money left in the budget.

 

204780c8-e012-47fa-a45c-7a6f368a3ce3_large2000.jpg

 

ba97d3e1-40e4-4943-b60f-4c1bd6c73a2a_large2000.jpg

Very nice boats Alan 

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1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

The UK is not that bad - here are a couple of Liveaboards, well within your budget and ideal for a bit of coastal hopping, you could take a couple of years going around the coast in a luxury (heated and insulated) comfortable boat.

 

Proper boats :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/steel-passagemaker/ad-55598

 

I've been mulling over this one for some time, but I've already got two boats.

£45,000 or offers (and its in Cork !!!)

 

51c8bcdc-c2f0-49fd-b343-1bda5e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

51c8bec2-75f0-4310-8305-28c25e4cebd5_large2000.jpg

 

or this one :

 

https://www.findafishingboat.com/converted-danish-trawler/ad-107405

In North Wales and at £30,000 plenty of money left.

'Modernisation' needed to suit your taste but money left in the budget.

 

204780c8-e012-47fa-a45c-7a6f368a3ce3_large2000.jpg

 

ba97d3e1-40e4-4943-b60f-4c1bd6c73a2a_large2000.jpg

Nice, Alan,  thank you. The air draft may be an issue though! 

1 hour ago, Dav and Pen said:

I am  a bit late to this thread but we had a barge on the continent for 18 years. We brought it in Belgium and that was lucky because it needed a lot of work and equipment which was much more easily obtainable and at much better prices than France. We were lucky in that the previous owner was well known in Antwerp and we had to promise to look after it. For the last 11 years we left it for the winter in burgundy. We did moor at H2O in the old lock for 3 years and apart from messing about with the electricity supply it was ok but we never had any work done by them. The other yard in St Jean de Losne Blanquerts has a much better reputation for small boats and the dry dock run by Atelier Fluvial for larger boats. There are many more marinas and places for cruisers on the R. Saone and Evans Marina at Migennes is very helpful and run by an Englishman.

As said you need an ICC certificate for any private boat and an Irish license is acceptable. With an Irish passport you have freedom of movement in Europe without restrictions but if your wife has an American one then restrictions apply.

There are lot of small cruisers and ex hire boats used by the New Zealanders and Australians and a good site to look for these is Boatshed Bourgogne. At your budget I’m afraid it will be an old boat but there are always people who need to sell, however you will not be able to afford many surveys so when you do start looking be careful At least a small cruiser is not difficult to have pulled out of the water.

The canals of Burgundy are ideal for safe cruising and offer lovely countryside and interesting places to visit hence the large number of hotel boats on these waterways.

Thanks for the info! Sounds like you really enjoyed the life there. And it sounds like Belgium and holland are the places to be looking for them. My wife's grandfather was all Kansas Dutch/German, the kind of man that waxed his tractor after ploughing the field. I'm sure those boats are well loved and cared for. 

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1 minute ago, Josm100 said:

Nice, Alan,  thank you. The air draft may be an issue though! 

No problem on the coast - after finishing the UK you could even coast hop down the North coast of France, Spain and Portugal, into the med and take in the South of France, you can then 'go back' into the French canals and cruise up to Chalon (460km from the coast) with no depth or height problems.

 

I looked at taking our cat down and thru the French canals but we are a 'bit fat'.

Maximum beam is 16 '6" and we are 23 feet.

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17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No problem on the coast - after finishing the UK you could even coast hop down the North coast of France, Spain and Portugal, into the med and take in the South of France, you can then 'go back' into the French canals and cruise up to Chalon (460km from the coast) with no depth or height problems.

 

I looked at taking our cat down and thru the French canals but we are a 'bit fat'.

Maximum beam is 16 '6" and we are 23 feet.

That sounds good but I think my wife and I are a bit too novice to commit to the big blue just yet. Thanks. Pretty boats, have you done that in the Cat?

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Just now, Josm100 said:

That sounds good but I think my wife and I are a bit too novice to commit to the big blue just yet. Thanks. Pretty boats, have you done that in the Cat?

We fetched the cat back from Croatia to Hull, 3050 miles but we did it non stop (apart from two days R&R in Spain) in 28 days.

 

She is too big for the inland waterways so we had to go 'the long way around'.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_1018.JPG

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Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

We fetched the cat back from Croatia to Hull, 3050 miles but we did it non stop (apart from two days R&R in Spain) in 28 days.

 

She is too big for the inland waterways so we had to go 'the long way around'.

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_1018.JPG

What an adventure!

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11 hours ago, Albion said:

Yes, I would agree with that from first hand experience. They do give loads of interior living space but had significant problems with steering and straight line steering capability (wandering, requiring constant attention to what the bow was doing at the expense of admiring the scenery ?) due to the design. We have seen hirers of that style absolutely petrified with what was happening to them as they tried steering the boat to pass you, and one other actually abandoned theirs at another location and refused to continue their holiday because of their experiences.

Roger

Roger, I looked at a couple of videos and the layouts of these boats. It is disappointing to hear they are poor handlers, almost dangerous by the sounds of it. They literally check every box for me, aft private master cabin, multiple rooms for guests and conversion when it's just the two of us, and the aft deck with a steering position so you can watch the scenery go by. This is probably the layout I'd be looking for in a future boat.

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1 minute ago, Josm100 said:

Roger, I looked at a couple of videos and the layouts of these boats. It is disappointing to hear they are poor handlers, almost dangerous by the sounds of it. They literally check every box for me, aft private master cabin, multiple rooms for guests and conversion when it's just the two of us, and the aft deck with a steering position so you can watch the scenery go by. This is probably the layout I'd be looking for in a future boat.

I meet a hirer on the Nivernais trying to moor on some pontoons and he just couldn’t reverse it or get alongside because of the current. We gave him a hand with the ropes and when all tied up he appologised and said it just didn’t steer and then said he was a Clyde pilot! I have seen them out of the water and the swim is almost non existent giving a very poor flow to the prop and rudder.

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2 minutes ago, Dav and Pen said:

I meet a hirer on the Nivernais trying to moor on some pontoons and he just couldn’t reverse it or get alongside because of the current. We gave him a hand with the ropes and when all tied up he appologised and said it just didn’t steer and then said he was a Clyde pilot! I have seen them out of the water and the swim is almost non existent giving a very poor flow to the prop and rudder.

But just look how awesome they are inside! Bummer. 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

Roger, I looked at a couple of videos and the layouts of these boats. It is disappointing to hear they are poor handlers, almost dangerous by the sounds of it. They literally check every box for me, aft private master cabin, multiple rooms for guests and conversion when it's just the two of us, and the aft deck with a steering position so you can watch the scenery go by. This is probably the layout I'd be looking for in a future boat.

Oh, I agree, in theory they have loads of plus points but you will see from my last long PM this afternoon giving some of the history and the limitations they do have issues. Having had one, and knowing the history well, if I were you and I chose to buy one then I would definitely choose one of the later ones from SWDS, or perhaps one of the very first Winnersh ones. I am not making up some of the limitations that I describe. As you can tell I have much experience of much of the fleet. Yes, you can manage with them BUT is managing the same as enjoying a lovely boat that handles well? I did get mine to handle well after much work in Jo Parfitt's yard at Migennes but there was significant work. The difference between my Euroclassic handling and my Sagar replacement for it was just staggering. However, you won't get a Sagar for your budget I'm afraid.

Good luck with your eventual choice.

Roger

Edited by Albion
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Thank you everyone who have patiently answered my questions and tollerated my ignorance. I've learned more in the past couple of days than in months of watching youtube videos of boats going up and down on the Canal du Midi. 

3 minutes ago, Albion said:

Oh, I agree, in theory they have loads of plus points but you will see from my last PM some of the history and the limitations. Having had one, and knowing the history well, if I were you and I chose to buy one then I would definitely choose one of the later ones, possibly from SWDS, or perhaps one of the very first Winnersh ones. I am not making up some of the limitations that I describe. As you can tell I have much experience of much of the fleet. Yes, you can manage with them BUT is managing the same as enjoying a lovely boat that handles well? I did get mine to handle well after much work in Jo Parfitt's yard at Migennes but there was significant work. The difference between my Euroclassic handling and my Sagar replacement for it was just staggering. However, you won't get a Sagar for your budget I'm afraid.

Good luck with your eventual choice.

Roger

Thanks man. You've opened my eyes to the fact that every boat is truly a compromise,  and that's not just a cliche. Thanks. 

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5 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

Thank you everyone who have patiently answered my questions and tollerated my ignorance. I've learned more in the past couple of days than in months of watching youtube videos of boats going up and down on the Canal du Midi. 

Thanks man. You've opened my eyes to the fact that every boat is truly a compromise,  and that's not just a cliche. Thanks. 

Just watched the Boatshed sales video and it is pretty familiar of course. Two points, th wood burning stove was not standard, I don't know whether the owner had it fitted during the build or, perhaps, added it afterwards. The air con unit in the lounge/kitchen are was standard but was pretty useless at cooling the boat and, of course, required you to be plugged into a borne to be able to run it..

Roger

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46 minutes ago, Boaty Jo said:

Euroclassic boats do have a mixed reputation.

Not to be confused with Euroship Services  boats, which are even further out of budget. 

For sure, I'm beginning to get a feel for the benefits of research when it comes to choosing a boat. What would you suggest? Joe.

 

P.S. honestly, if the interior steering position is useless it eliminates this boat from contention for me. 

Edited by Josm100
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1 hour ago, Josm100 said:

For sure, I'm beginning to get a feel for the benefits of research when it comes to choosing a boat. What would you suggest? Joe.

 

P.S. honestly, if the interior steering position is useless it eliminates this boat from contention for me. 

The only time that I have ever heard that anyone has used the interior steering position of a 129 out of choice/necessity (129 the best steering version of the Euroclassics) was once when Timothy West and Prunella Scales did their TV canal series on the Nivernais Canal, late in the boating season. A 129 was prepared and cleaned to within an inch of its life and a port worker went along with them and the film crew (we were moored at Vermenton at the time and were actually asked if we could hang around and be interviewed for the program but couldn't because we had to head back to the UK just before the program was to be filmed). As usual, as can be seen from many of his other canal films, Timothy found steering difficult so they filmed some of him steering from the outer/upper deck position but it was faked because the port worker was the one actually steering from inside the boat while Timothy was filmed appearing to steer it from the outside ?. This info was relayed to us by the port staff the next season when we rejoined our barge at the port.

Roger

Edited by Albion
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3 hours ago, Josm100 said:

For sure, I'm beginning to get a feel for the benefits of research when it comes to choosing a boat. What would you suggest? Joe.

 

P.S. honestly, if the interior steering position is useless it eliminates this boat from contention for me. 

Referring to the Euroclassic boats, my feeling is that as a novice you would find it very difficult to modify a craft.

Internally not too bad perhaps, although this invovles upgrades to many systems, particularly if you're considering winter living. Batteries, heating, insulation are all pricey items and to get a yard to do it for you satisfactorily would likely be expensive.

Then there's the handling charateristics. I believe apart from anything else these boats tend to side-slip. For the novice this is not easy to master. We had a flat-bottom, round bilge barge and it took a while to get the hang of (one ot two expensive lessons on the way). I see you've been on the DBA site and so you have some ideas of the difficulty involved with modifying a boat.

I'll be honest, all this would put me off, paticularly if I couldn't do much of the work my self, purely from a cost perspective.

 

One thing that sages on here say about buying narrowboats is that it's perhaps better to buy a good second-hand boat that is well maintained and tried and tested rather than a shiney new one. Budget is against you of course. But I came across a number of non-Europeans cruising in Europe (Aussies, Kiwis, American, Canadian) who bought pretty high spec boats, cruised them for 2, 5 years, whatever, then sold them on again. A good boat will hold it's price. Even though the outlay was considerably more, they had confortable year-round cruising, winter living, not many mechanical issues and they basically got their money back.

 

Good ones that I came across regularly were Piper, Sagar and Delta to name but three. Plus any number of converted old Dutch barges, some good, some poor.

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8 hours ago, Albion said:

The only time that I have ever heard that anyone has used the interior steering position of a 129 out of choice/necessity (129 the best steering version of the Euroclassics) was once when Timothy West and Prunella Scales did their TV canal series on the Nivernais Canal, late in the boating season. A 129 was prepared and cleaned to within an inch of its life and a port worker went along with them and the film crew (we were moored at Vermenton at the time and were actually asked if we could hang around and be interviewed for the program but couldn't because we had to head back to the UK just before the program was to be filmed). As usual, as can be seen from many of his other canal films, Timothy found steering difficult so they filmed some of him steering from the outer/upper deck position but it was faked because the port worker was the one actually steering from inside the boat while Timothy was filmed appearing to steer it from the outside ?. This info was relayed to us by the port staff the next season when we rejoined our barge at the port.

Roger

Rewatching that episode it makes total sense that he couldn't pilot the boat!

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6 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

Rewatching that episode it makes total sense that he couldn't pilot the boat!

In all honesty, he's not good at piloting a narrowboat, a craft that he has owned for years. Saw him and his boat once at Calcutta Marina when I used to moor our nb there and to say his boat looked well worn would be a kind description. ?

Roger

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