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Ex Hire Boat in France.


Josm100

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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

In truth I have no idea but if an existing engine is good then it can be retro fitted to it, a lynch motor and controller would be the best bet, as it can be used to charge the batteries when using the diesel engine.  I did think about it for my boat but decided all electric was better for me. Lynch motors  or google Cedric lynch who is chief engineer for saietta electric motors,  who is a genius on this stuff

Thanks.

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Don't disagree with any of the above. The DBA is worth joining for the mooring guide alone. We have hired penichettes, the form of heating and cooking vary, the insulation (plus large windows) looks unsuitable for cold winters. But that would apply to nearly all the plastic boats and many small dutch steel cruisers. Have you considered a small dutch barge style, these may be better insulated. In coastal Belgium and North France we do not find summers so hot as further South or winters so cold but even so insulation and heat are appropriate.

You will find more boats here http://www.fluvialnet.com/fiches-bateaux

 

and of course there are many brokers in the Netherlands.

 

Edited by Phoenix_V
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1 hour ago, Phoenix_V said:

Don't disagree with any of the above. The DBA is worth joining for the mooring guide alone. We have hired penichettes, the form of heating and cooking vary, the insulation (plus large windows) looks unsuitable for cold winters. But that would apply to nearly all the plastic boats and many small dutch steel cruisers. Have you considered a small dutch barge style, these may be better insulated. In coastal Belgium and North France we do not find summers so hot as further South or winters so cold but even so insulation and heat are appropriate.

You will find more boats here http://www.fluvialnet.com/fiches-bateaux

 

and of course there are many brokers in the Netherlands.

 

Thanks, good info, but probably outside our price range, we'll be looking for a used boat. 

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2 hours ago, peterboat said:

In truth I have no idea but if an existing engine is good then it can be retro fitted to it, a lynch motor and controller would be the best bet, as it can be used to charge the batteries when using the diesel engine.  I did think about it for my boat but decided all electric was better for me. Lynch motors  or google Cedric lynch who is chief engineer for saietta electric motors,  who is a genius on this stuff

One of the reasons to look at a new engine is that the hire boat's engine will probably be worn out. Which is fine actually because I think I want to replace to 50hp engine with something more powerful, 90hp maybe, to make the penichette more competent in tidal flows and rivers like the Rhone and Rhine. Do you think that's a valid goal?

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22 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

One of the reasons to look at a new engine is that the hire boat's engine will probably be worn out. Which is fine actually because I think I want to replace to 50hp engine with something more powerful, 90hp maybe, to make the penichette more competent in tidal flows and rivers like the Rhone and Rhine. Do you think that's a valid goal?

No not really, I am fairly certain that most hybrids can operate diesel and electric together plus how heavy will the boat be its fibreglass? Big engines use lots of fuel and in France you will be buying white diesel at full price 

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I don't think I would want to live full time over the winter on a boat in France. Having kept a smallish (40ft) boat out there for ten years everything packs up on the canals in October and they are even more dead than they have become in the summer. Unless you have a large DB in somewhere like Roanne or a City like Paris, where there is or was a bit of a community then it would very cold and miserable. Maybe better in the Med area. Most British boaters seem to come home or go to Portugal in a camper van for the Winter. We found it very nice for several periods a few weeks at a time each summer but with fewer boats coming down from Holland it has become very quiet.

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28 minutes ago, peterboat said:

No not really, I am fairly certain that most hybrids can operate diesel and electric together plus how heavy will the boat be its fibreglass? Big engines use lots of fuel and in France you will be buying white diesel at full price 

When we hired they charged by the engin hour so start engine at the last minute, fast as you can to the next stop, use the shore supply to charge the batteries dont run the engine, turned it off at every opportunity.

Edited by ditchcrawler
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55 minutes ago, Josm100 said:

One of the reasons to look at a new engine is that the hire boat's engine will probably be worn out. Which is fine actually because I think I want to replace to 50hp engine with something more powerful, 90hp maybe, to make the penichette more competent in tidal flows and rivers like the Rhone and Rhine. Do you think that's a valid goal?

Our boat is 10m and a bit more than 10 tons and has been on quite a lot of tidal waters and major rivers in the UK and Europe (not uphill on the Rhone) and copes OK with a 2 litre Beta 43 hp motor, In fact it does its maximum hull speed worked out on the back of a beermat and still has a bit to spare but any more revs. and it just sits down in the water, makes a big bow wave and drinks diesel, that last 1 mph doesn't half use a lot of fuel.

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37 minutes ago, Bee said:

Our boat is 10m and a bit more than 10 tons and has been on quite a lot of tidal waters and major rivers in the UK and Europe (not uphill on the Rhone) and copes OK with a 2 litre Beta 43 hp motor, In fact it does its maximum hull speed worked out on the back of a beermat and still has a bit to spare but any more revs. and it just sits down in the water, makes a big bow wave and drinks diesel, that last 1 mph doesn't half use a lot of fuel.

My electric boat shows me how futile it is to go fast 3.3 Kw achieves cruising speed, 23 kw achieves 2 mph more pointless  really, slower saves loads of fuel be it diesel or batteries in my case 

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4 hours ago, Mike Adams said:

I don't think I would want to live full time over the winter on a boat in France. Having kept a smallish (40ft) boat out there for ten years everything packs up on the canals in October and they are even more dead than they have become in the summer. Unless you have a large DB in somewhere like Roanne or a City like Paris, where there is or was a bit of a community then it would very cold and miserable. Maybe better in the Med area. Most British boaters seem to come home or go to Portugal in a camper van for the Winter. We found it very nice for several periods a few weeks at a time each summer but with fewer boats coming down from Holland it has become very quiet.

Thanks, why have the boats stopped coming down from holland? 

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10 hours ago, Josm100 said:

Hi Tam, so the tool bar that allows the search function is only available to members, and a google search seems to have jumbled all the replys while leaving out the OP question!

 

I'll sign up in a bit and all will be grand. Thanks for the help. 

I signed up for it and yes, that was the issue, great resource,  thanks for the help. Joe.

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Just to counter the anti-H2O post, we lived in the Gare d'Eau for five years. We had extensive dealings with Max (son), and Gerard and Patricia and never had a cross word.

There are horror stories from every country. We got shafted in Holland and there are people who have had problems in the UK too.

Your budget of £50k for a winter-suitable boat for extended stays is tight. To fit decent insulation (and heating) retrospecively is tricky and likely expensive. 

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9 minutes ago, Boaty Jo said:

Just to counter the anti-H2O post, we lived in the Gare d'Eau for five years. We had extensive dealings with Max (son), and Gerard and Patricia and never had a cross word.

There are horror stories from every country. We got shafted in Holland and there are people who have had problems in the UK too.

Your budget of £50k for a winter-suitable boat for extended stays is tight. To fit decent insulation (and heating) retrospecively is tricky and likely expensive. 

Thanks, good to know. We are a couple of years away from committing to anything yet so I have a lot of research to do. We were supposed to be on the french canals for out twentieth anniversary next week but that's not happening obviously. Bummer.

Edited by Josm100
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6 hours ago, Josm100 said:

Thanks, why have the boats stopped coming down from holland? 

My understanding is that it was to do with the VNF licence cost. The Brits are used to being charged for use of the waterways whilst they are free I believe in Holland and the Dutch were not used to paying so when VNF introduced charges that cut the numbers down and I think also the increasing cost of fuel. Years ago you could boat down from Holland free spend most of the summer time in France, often with free moorings, free electricity and water from the local commune maybe do some repairs on your boat and so on now you often have to pay for things or face restrictions on your stay. If you are looking for a boat I would go for something less than 15meters. You will find it much easier to moor in the nicest locations.

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12 hours ago, Josm100 said:

One of the reasons to look at a new engine is that the hire boat's engine will probably be worn out.

It probably won't. It is in hire fleets' interests to keep everything well serviced and working properly, so that hireres' holidays aren't subject to annoying delays while a mechanic comes out from the base and remedies the problem, so the engine will be regularly maintained, and replaced when necessary. One pénichette which I was looking at on the internet had a new engine fitted last year.

 

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12 hours ago, Josm100 said:

Thanks, good info, but probably outside our price range, we'll be looking for a used boat. 

those sources I gave are sources of second hand barges! the question is whether to go for recently built and therefore maximizing space or old as in historic and characterful, The standard of fit out/hull condition/extent of wear and tear can vary in either case. We fit two bedrooms and two bathrooms with a decent lounge into 13 metres and the hire boats will do better albeit with less storage, but it is not like living in a house or small flat even, think caravan (european size not US!) The folks on the dba will tell you to go big but over 15m you will run into a host of problems over20 it gets worse and of course larger costs more to buy and to run. I would also avoid the euroclassic design mentioned by one poster, they have issues. This is our layout on a small modern barge.

 

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Edited by Phoenix_V
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12 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

When we hired they charged by the engin hour so start engine at the last minute, fast as you can to the next stop, use the shore supply to charge the batteries dont run the engine, turned it off at every opportunity.

Le Boat?

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8 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Le Boat?

I think it's standard practice over there. Locaboat do it - but they also offer an all-in package including fuel, damage waiver, bicycle and cleaning on return, which we have always gone for. We have never taken the bike after discovering that if it was stolen we would be charged for it.

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18 minutes ago, Athy said:

I think it's standard practice over there. Locaboat do it - but they also offer an all-in package including fuel, damage waiver, bicycle and cleaning on return, which we have always gone for. We have never taken the bike after discovering that if it was stolen we would be charged for it.

Le Boat have a very similar package. We used it last time we hired with them. Think it only covered 25 engine hours of fuel though and we used most of those.

 

We have decided not to use that package next year as we reckon it will be cheaper to pay the damage waiver and fuel separately plus we won't need the bike and we leave the boats we hire clean and tidy anyway!

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6 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Le Boat have a very similar package. We used it last time we hired with them. Think it only covered 25 engine hours of fuel though and we used most of those.

 

We have decided not to use that package next year as we reckon it will be cheaper to pay the damage waiver and fuel separately plus we won't need the bike and we leave the boats we hire clean and tidy anyway!

I think Locaboat's covers unlimited engine hours - we've probably averaged 40 or more hours per week's hire. We, don't leave their boats looking like a pigsty either, but deep cleaning is not something we want to be doing at half past seven or so on the last morning.

 

This line of conversation leads me to suggest: Josm, when you've identified a type of boat which you might like to buy, why not try and hire a similar one for a couple of weeks? This will allow you to form an impression of what you like, and more importantly what you don't like, about it before committing yourself to a purchase. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Boaty Jo said:

Just to counter the anti-H2O post, we lived in the Gare d'Eau for five years. We had extensive dealings with Max (son), and Gerard and Patricia and never had a cross word.

There are horror stories from every country. We got shafted in Holland and there are people who have had problems in the UK too.

Yes, if you only wanted to stay in their ports, as we did in Auxonne, there was no problem. BUT, first hand (not second-hand friend of a friend of a friend stories) of repairs and second-hand boats sales etc. recount different facts. Even one friend of ours who's boat is moored in St Jean de Losne and knows the family well has to keep an eye on what they try to charge and has frequently had to argue with them about repair prices before they reluctantly agree to charge what they originally quoted. Also, significantly IMO, we helped out a French boater on the system elsewhere (spoke only French and lived a few doors down in those houses on the approach road to the St Jean de Losne, so why would he want to rubbish a local French company?) told us some first hand tales of some of the 'tricks' that H2O got up to. Several locks, on some of the canal system further up, are daubed with French graffiti saying 'H20, incompetents et voleurs'. And there is more which I won't bore you with. This is not just the odd rumour/story I am afraid, it is a repetitive theme. What I'm saying is that, based on their reputation, you just have to be extremely wary when dealing with the company if you are considering buying a boat through their brokerage or having a repair done at their workshop.

Roger

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13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

When we hired they charged by the engin hour so start engine at the last minute, fast as you can to the next stop, use the shore supply to charge the batteries dont run the engine, turned it off at every opportunity.

Yes, this is one of the disadvantages to other boat owners of the French hire boat system of charging fuel by the engine hour. We have had hire boats collide with our barge when hirers untie and cast off before starting their engines. Then they race past you with significant wash and with no concern for moored boats all because they want to minimise engine hours run. In the early days the hire fleets that we knew used to dip the fuel tanks and charge to replace what had been used which tended to encourage economical use, not flat out speed, but that was a lengthier operation compared to just glancing at an engine hour meter so the practice was dropped.

Roger

Edited by Albion
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So that's why they (well, some of them) do it! This had never occurred to me: if I thought about it at all, I assumed that it was just French driving methods transferred from road to water.

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5 minutes ago, Albion said:

Yes, this is one of the disadvantages to other boat owners of the French hire boat system of charging fuel by the engine hour. We have had hire boats collide with our barge when hirers untie and cast off before starting their engines.The the  race past you with significant wash and with no concern for moored boats all because they want to minimise engine hours run. In the early days the hire fleets that we knew used to dip the fuel tanks and charge to replace what had been used which tended to encourage economical use, not flat out speed, but that was a lengthier operation compared to just glancing at an engine hour meter so the practice was dropped.

Roger

Yes it does seem a daft system and does just encourage speeding. Although with the boat we hired in Brittany it was so throttled back and under propped that it wasn't possible to break the speed limit. The cynic in you does then believe this is a deliberate act by the hire yard to slow progress and force more hours running :angry:

 

Hopefully the Horizon we are hiring next year will be better set up for achieving a reasonable cruising speed.

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Locaboat's craft have two lines stuck on the rev. counter, one to indicate maximum revs on canals and the other for rivers. But the boats are capable of exceeding these limits.

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