Watford locks

[Dave123]

Was meant to be going that way mid July so fingers crossed. How bad is the other gate? Don't fancy getting trapped and having to go the long way round via Leicester. Might go to the Ashby canal instead...not so much that can fail there?

[frangar]

Been to look. Not good news. I reckon at least a new heel post unless they can bodge it. Couple of boats waiting at the bottom. Nothing at the top.

[David Mack]

1 hour ago, frangar said:

Been to look. Not good news. I reckon at least a new heel post unless they can bodge it. Couple of boats waiting at the bottom. Nothing at the top.

They replaced a mitre post on a gate on the Rochdale last year, when that failed unexpectedly. Still took a few weeks though.

[ditchcrawler]

They only need to move the chain a bit and its usable

[Chris Lowe]

That heel post is well knackered it looks the heel post strap is still firmly fixed to the lock and has torn through the heel post.

[frangar]

2 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

That heel post is well knackered it looks the heel post strap is still firmly fixed to the lock and has torn through the heel post.

Yep. Strap not moved. Post is rotten the whole way through. Very lucky it didn’t fall onto a boat. 

[robtheplod]

On 13/06/2020 at 15:04, frangar said:

Yep. Strap not moved. Post is rotten the whole way through. Very lucky it didn’t fall onto a boat. 

I thought lock gates were examined every X years?  This suggests not?

[frangar]

23 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I thought lock gates were examined every X years?  This suggests not?

Given that it’s a flight with lockies...albeit volunteers I would have thought it might have been noticed....

[Captain Pegg]

47 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

I thought lock gates were examined every X years?  This suggests not?

I’m sure they are visually inspected but to detect rot inside a partially obscured large timber section can’t reliably be done by such a method. There’s no reliable, repeatable and cost-effective process for doing that, it’s a specialist job.

 

It’s not a maintenance failure as there’s nothing that should have been done to the timber that hasn’t been done. It’s arguably a failure of inspection and prioritisation for replacement but it’s not as simple as just prioritising by age. Age is only ever a proxy to condition and with a natural material like timber it’s not a reliable indicator.

 

Realistically I think this is a risk that results from CRT having to use timber for heritage reasons. If the inland waterways were important commercial corridors that required high levels of availability that probably wouldn’t be tenable and we’d have steel gates as the norm.

 

For me the key is how quickly CRT respond.

 

JP

[matty40s]

31 minutes ago, frangar said:

Given that it’s a flight with lockies...albeit volunteers I would have thought it might have been noticed....

It's been paid employees for most of the bookings.

[frangar]

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It's been paid employees for most of the bookings.

That’s worse then! Its been wobbly for a while as you know....also someone has removed a coping from the landing below...must have been some whack! 

[Tuscan]

20 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I’m sure they are visually inspected but to detect rot inside a partially obscured large timber section can’t reliably be done by such a method. There’s no reliable, repeatable and cost-effective process for doing that, it’s a specialist job.

 

It’s not a maintenance failure as there’s nothing that should have been done to the timber that hasn’t been done. It’s arguably a failure of inspection and prioritisation for replacement but it’s not as simple as just prioritising by age. Age is only ever a proxy to condition and with a natural material like timber it’s not a reliable indicator.

 

Realistically I think this is a risk that results from CRT having to use timber for heritage reasons. If the inland waterways were important commercial corridors that required high levels of availability that probably wouldn’t be tenable and we’d have steel gates as the norm.

 

For me the key is how quickly CRT respond.

 

JP

I’m just a numpty but years ago when checking for rot on an old boat I just used a screw driver. What is the test for rot on wooden locks?

[matty40s]

20 minutes ago, frangar said:

That’s worse then! Its been wobbly for a while as you know....also someone has removed a coping from the landing below...must have been some whack! 

That coping has been there since January.

[frangar]

7 minutes ago, matty40s said:

That coping has been there since January.

At least it’s not in cut I guess! 

[Captain Pegg]

23 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

I’m just a numpty but years ago when checking for rot on an old boat I just used a screw driver. What is the test for rot on wooden locks?

CRT may well use an inspection hammer but that won’t tell you the full condition of the whole section. Railway sleepers can be condition scored by a similar method but it isn’t fully sufficient for larger timbers used on bridges which are difficult to fully inspect. The situation with regard to boats versus locks is very similar given the different size of the timbers and the ease of access to inspect.

 

One method is the use of needle penetration and measure the resistance but it takes significant interpretation of the results and it’s a test undertaken by a highly trained operative. It’s probably not something that the cost of this sort of failure justifies on a routine basis given just how many tests would be needed to be achieve a meaningful outcome.

 

JP

 

 

Edited June 14, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Ray T]

20 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

CRT may well use an inspection hammer but that won’t tell you the full condition of the whole section. Railway sleepers can be condition scored by a similar method but it isn’t fully sufficient for larger timbers used on bridges which are difficult to fully inspect. The situation with regard to boats versus locks is very similar given the different size of the timbers and the ease of access to inspect.

 

One method is the use of needle penetration and measure the resistance but it takes significant interpretation of the results and it’s a test undertaken by a highly trained operative. It’s probably not something that the cost of this sort of failure justifies on a routine basis given just how many tests would be needed to be achieve a meaningful outcome.

 

JP

 

 

In the early days when I worked for GPO, Post Office Telephones and BT the pole testers used the "Whack it with a hammer" principle but now they use the needle penetration electronic method. Could CRT "borrow" what are now Openreach pole testers, they have the expertise and equipment? 

 

Openreach has full time pole testers but I forget what the frequency of the tests is now.

Edited June 14, 2020 by Ray T

[Rick-n-Jo]

15/06/2020 15:44

Following the failure of the off-side gate, lock 3, on the Watford Flight on Friday we have now made the gate safe. 

A Trust engineer has inspected the damage and ordered replacement parts.

A plan to safely lift the gate is being put together and we hope to be able to issue more positive news in the coming days.

[TheBiscuits]

On 14/06/2020 at 20:59, Ray T said:

Openreach has full time pole testers but I forget what the frequency of the tests is now.

6 years on a label I saw on one this weekend.  I don't recall having ever read one before, but it was well timed to help answer your query.

[CLAN1]

On 12/06/2020 at 19:47, frangar said:

Them & Watford are much better when you sack either the staff or the volunteers off and do it yourself....in fact that applies to most locks really. 

Don't agree,  weve never had problems with volunteers or staff at any lock, what we have seen is some pig headed boaters NOT doing as they are asked. Lets stop keep knocking the volunteers.

[frangar]

Just now, CLAN1 said:

Don't agree,  weve never had problems with volunteers or staff at any lock, what we have seen is some pig headed boaters NOT doing as they are asked. Lets stop keep knocking the volunteers.

If what they asked made sense or indeed was always safe practice I’d agree...sadly it’s not so I will continue to rather operate my own locks...if they want to set them up on a flight that’s fine but I’d rather not have either myself, my crew or my boat at risk.  

[roland elsdon]

4 hours ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

15/06/2020 15:44

Following the failure of the off-side gate, lock 3, on the Watford Flight on Friday we have now made the gate safe. 

A Trust engineer has inspected the damage and ordered replacement parts.

A plan to safely lift the gate is being put together and we hope to be able to issue more positive news in the coming days.

Replacement parts... screwfix click and collect?

[Chris Lowe]

I wonder how often they do replace them, in the early 80's we repurposed a pair of gates from Watford locks for used on the Wey & Arun.

[cuthound]

35 minutes ago, buccaneer66 said:

I wonder how often they do replace them, in the early 80's we repurposed a pair of gates from Watford locks for used on the Wey & Arun.

 

Ssshhh, they will be asking for them back! ???

[Scholar Gypsy]

Just issued by CRT: another fortnight, subject to caveats.

 

Update on 17/06/2020:

Following the failure of the off-side gate, Watford Flight lock 3 on Friday 12/06/2020 we are now in the process of fabricating the necessary replacement parts. Arrangements have been made for a crane to be on site in the coming days to remove the damaged gate.

Our aim is to restore the flight to working order during the week beginning 29/06/2020, however this date is subject to change in response to any further complications.

This notice will be updated as works progress with any revisions to the estimated completion date.

We would like to apologise for any inconvenience and thank you for your patience during this time

Please follow the government advice – stay alert, control the virus, save lives.

[Dave123]

Quicker than expected!