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Government realises boats exist!

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2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I have no more idea than (it appears) anyone else has.

The cut and paste is from the .Gov website and simply states 'your primary residence'

 

This looks like a reasonable explanation of a Primary Residence :

 

Primary Residence

A primary residence is the main home someone inhabits. Your primary property can be an apartment, a houseboat or another form of property that you live in most of the year.

Primary residences tend to qualify for the lowest mortgage rates. For your home to qualify as your primary property, here are some of the requirements:

  • You must live there most of the year.
  • It must be a convenient distance from your place of employment.
  • You need documentation to prove your residence. You can use your voter registration, tax return, etc.

 

I am not sure where your explanation comes from but in the bumph on tax, you dont have to live there 'most' of the year - as you can specify a place and then move later. There is no definition other than what the tax peeps have got and that does not say you have to live there most of the year. Therefore using the word 'Primary residence' opens up a whole can of worms that would be easy to defend in a court case.

 

50 minutes ago, john6767 said:

 

Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer so I may go wrong here.  

 

All this has been done as "statutory instruments", not laws as such.  Not sure what the real difference is, but I believe this allowed them to be put in place fast without being debated in parliament.

 

Anyway the link to the relevant one for England, is here (shown at the verson in place as of 1 June)

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/350/regulation/6/2020-06-01

 

All the steps along the way also have statutory instruments and you can see the steps at the top of the page and select anyone,  This is what came in on 1 June, prior to that you were not allowed to leave the place where you are living without a reasonable excuse 

 

The key bits are, with the list a reasonable excuses none of which are relevant to  leisure boats, omitted for clarity.

 

Restrictions on movement

6.—

(1) No person may, without reasonable excuse, stay overnight at any place other than the place where they are living.

(2) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the circumstances in which a person (“P”) has a reasonable excuse include cases where—

[snip, list of reasonable excuses removed for clarity]

(3) Paragraph (1) does not apply to any person who is homeless.

(4) For the purposes of paragraph (1), the place where a person is living includes the premises where they live together with any garden, yard, passage, stair, garage, outhouse or other appurtenance of such premises.

 

It is a simple as that

Thankyou John. That is very simple and exactly how I remember it. The key point is that this does not use the words 'primary residence'. It uses the words 'where you are living'. If you were being prosecuted under this 'law' or 'statutory instrument', the court would look at 'where you are living' rather than 'your primary residence'. The words primary residence have been used in the 'Advice' from the government rather than the law itself.

Now I know we should be following the 'guidance' but you can adhere to the law by just moving onto your boat and living on it. Even the initial version from the last week in March allowed you to leave your house to 'move house'. There is nothing 'in law' to say that you then cant move to another place to live.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, Jerra said:

I have talked to people who think anybody can form a support bubble with any number providing they are from just 2 households.

I've talked to people who think the Earth is flat.

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Just now, doratheexplorer said:

I've talked to people who think the Earth is flat.

Surely it is. The water does not run out of our marina.

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47 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

There is a lot of meat on half a pig!

I can imagine. For a couple of years, we bought half a lamb each autumn from a local farming couple. That took up a LOT of space in the freezer even though it came ready-jointed (as I hope your piggy has).

No doubt Sidney will have a high old time hoovering up the offcuts,

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1 hour ago, Athy said:

I can imagine. For a couple of years, we bought half a lamb each autumn from a local farming couple. That took up a LOT of space in the freezer even though it came ready-jointed (as I hope your piggy has).

No doubt Sidney will have a high old time hoovering up the offcuts,

Yes it has come butchered, although rather alarmingly this half a pig had four shoulders and four legs according to the joints we have :D

 

Sydney has got the ears and trotters to have a nibble on when I have slow roasted them.

 

We get half sheep as well. Still got a fair bit of lamb left in the freezer from the last lot. 

 

We are going to replace the fridge freezer in the garage with a full sized freezer unit as we don't use the fridge compartment of it at all. We will have more space for more meat then :unsure:

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2 hours ago, Loddon said:

Lockdown was a month late, borders should have been shut at the same time.

Lots if stuff done after it was needed, if we had led rather than not bothered we could have been virus free by now.

Seemed obvious to me which is why I stopped going out in early March pity the politicians didn't see it the same way

Just found a copy of the paper from March 17 - estimated death, because of the lockdown, 20,000 instead of 260,000. Public Health England refusing tests to nurses with symptoms and cutting PPE requirement.  Hey ho.

 

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13 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Just found a copy of the paper from March 17 - estimated death, because of the lockdown, 20,000 instead of 260,000. Public Health England refusing tests to nurses with symptoms and cutting PPE requirement.  Hey ho.

 

If we had had a proper timely lockdown & instead if all these 'special cases', letting folks back into the country etc etc etc & had quarantine then the scientists latest estimates are that, yes, we would have saved 20,000 of the 40,000 deaths.

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Some left and some right of centre government countries grasped it early enough. Sadly, we had Boris who fiddled as lungs burned. The pi££ing around the edges at the start and seeming contempt for lockdown by the likes of Cummings will have resulted in greater deaths, longer raised prevalence of it and deeper economic suffering. Biff it on the nose? Kiss my Matt Hancock.

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3 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

I am not sure where your explanation comes from but in the bumph on tax, you dont have to live there 'most' of the year - as you can specify a place and then move later. There is no definition other than what the tax peeps have got and that does not say you have to live there most of the year. Therefore using the word 'Primary residence' opens up a whole can of worms that would be easy to defend in a court case.

 

Thankyou John. That is very simple and exactly how I remember it. The key point is that this does not use the words 'primary residence'. It uses the words 'where you are living'. If you were being prosecuted under this 'law' or 'statutory instrument', the court would look at 'where you are living' rather than 'your primary residence'. The words primary residence have been used in the 'Advice' from the government rather than the law itself.

Now I know we should be following the 'guidance' but you can adhere to the law by just moving onto your boat and living on it. Even the initial version from the last week in March allowed you to leave your house to 'move house'. There is nothing 'in law' to say that you then cant move to another place to live.

 

 

In my view the government has used the primary residence term  to make it clearer what is meant by “the place where you live”.  Ultimately if you want to challenge the definition of “place where you live” that would be for a court to decide, and I find it hard to believe that the court would not take the governments guidance as the definition.  You could try a test case if you are feeling adventurous I guess, but right now waiting a couple more weeks seems easier.

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7 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

 Kiss my Matt Hancock.

If I've remembered this correctly, when the lock-down started (some time in late March?) the government, presumably passing on advice from its medical advisors, reckoned that we'd be back to normal in 12 weeks, which is about now. Well, they have been shown to be a little over-optimistic, but already we have many shops open again, sporting events starting, and gradual, significant reductions in the number of new cases of the bug and new deaths from or with it. So they weren't so far wrong.

   Now, when can we go and stay on our boat, please?

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22 minutes ago, john6767 said:

In my view the government has used the primary residence term  to make it clearer what is meant by “the place where you live”.  Ultimately if you want to challenge the definition of “place where you live” that would be for a court to decide, and I find it hard to believe that the court would not take the governments guidance as the definition.  You could try a test case if you are feeling adventurous I guess, but right now waiting a couple more weeks seems easier.

It is not 'the place where you live'. It is 'the place where you are living'. Big difference. There is no legal definition of primary residence. The word is used for tax purposes.

The law is clear - it is based on the place where you are living.....when considering the overnight stays. THat is the way the law is written.

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37 minutes ago, Athy said:

If I've remembered this correctly, when the lock-down started (some time in late March?) the government, presumably passing on advice from its medical advisors, reckoned that we'd be back to normal in 12 weeks, which is about now. Well, they have been shown to be a little over-optimistic, but already we have many shops open again, sporting events starting, and gradual, significant reductions in the number of new cases of the bug and new deaths from or with it. So they weren't so far wrong.

   Now, when can we go and stay on our boat, please?

Standing in a queue for an hour for post office on Monday morning. Lots of people in bookies next to it all that time, now reopened. Boating, drinking and smoking leave nowt for gambling so bookies not my domain but why is that okay but a beer in a pub garden not yet??? I'm out most days and life still doesn't feel nearly normal.

 

As for staying on my boat, I'm deciding my permanent residence on a daily basis, according to the weather and my imaginary friend who I DO (prove otherwise) believe in should I need forum transcript in a court of law.

 

ETA: just remember that you and Mrs @Athy can only have one imaginary friend living on your big boat for you to bubble and stay over. Single people can have all the Borrowers on their boat as their bubble.

Edited by BilgePump
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44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

It is not 'the place where you live'. It is 'the place where you are living'. Big difference. There is no legal definition of primary residence. The word is used for tax purposes.

The law is clear - it is based on the place where you are living.....when considering the overnight stays. THat is the way the law is written.

Then test it in court, as that would be the only ruling that matters in the end.  Out of interest what do you think that it means, and what the government intended by this section of the instrument?

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21 hours ago, MartynG said:

Enjoyment  doesn't have to include beer ............in a pub.

(Says he who has just ordered a bottle of scotch and lots of  bottles of beer for home delivery):cheers:

 

Sorry but a pub is the only place to drink beer. At home it just doesn't taste the same.🍺

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3 minutes ago, Slim said:

Sorry but a pub is the only place to drink beer. At home it just doesn't taste the same.🍺

You're delusional and I feel sorry for you.  Everywhere is the place to drink beer.

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6 hours ago, Jerra said:

I have talked to people who think anybody can form a support bubble with any number providing they are from just 2 households.

That's right as along as the "anybody" is from a single household, or is a single parent with children under 18. It doesn't matter how many are in the second household.

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15 minutes ago, Slim said:

Sorry but a pub is the only place to drink beer. At home it just doesn't taste the same.🍺

No, it tastes a damn' sight cheaper!

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5 minutes ago, John Wareing said:

That's right as along as the "anybody" is from a single household, or is a single parent with children under 18. It doesn't matter how many are in the second household.

You missed the point I was replying to.   I was replying to the fact some people think a family of 4 can form a support bubble with say 2 grandparents or their brother his wife and his kids.   This is not so.

 

The support bubble is for single people which as you say includes a single parent and non adult children.

Edited by Jerra

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59 minutes ago, Slim said:

Sorry but a pub is the only place to drink beer. At home it just doesn't taste the same.🍺

I agree that real beer has to be hand pulled pint. 

But bottled beers are okay and  a lot of people drink them anyway , even in a pub. My beers (and whisky)  are arriving later this evening.  The beer at £1 per 500ml is  a lot less than a pub.

 

Drinking beer (or whatever you prefer) on a boat has to come close to the same activity in a pub , if not  better.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I agree that real beer has to be hand pulled pint. 

But bottled beers are okay and  a lot of people drink them anyway , even in a pub. My beers (and whisky)  are arriving later this evening.  The beer at £1 per 500ml is  a lot less than a pub.

 

Drinking beer (or whatever you prefer) on a boat has to come close to the same activity in a pub , if not  better.

 

 

Not really. 

 

There is something very different about having a pint in a pub to having a drink at home or on the boat. 

 

It isn't all about the price. 

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1 hour ago, Slim said:

Sorry but a pub is the only place to drink beer. At home it just doesn't taste the same.🍺

I have to say even beer directly from the brewery isn't the same when its not in the pub.....but needs must at the moment.....cant wait to get back for a nice pint of ale.....I love a micropub!...and beer might be cheaper from a supermarket but I personally dont mind paying for proper ale in a proper pub....support your local or it will disappear 

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7 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

You can be away from home overnight if you stay with your bubble partner.

But only if you stay in their home.

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10 minutes ago, MartynG said:

Drinking beer (or whatever you prefer) on a boat has to come close to the same activity in a pub , if not  better.

 

 

I didn't think you were going anywhere near your boat at the moment as it might spread a killer virus....

 

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4 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

Yes it has come butchered, although rather alarmingly this half a pig had four shoulders and four legs according to the joints we have :D

 

Sydney has got the ears and trotters to have a nibble on when I have slow roasted them.

 

We get half sheep as well. Still got a fair bit of lamb left in the freezer from the last lot. 

 

We are going to replace the fridge freezer in the garage with a full sized freezer unit as we don't use the fridge compartment of it at all. We will have more space for more meat then :unsure:

Giving the Crubeens to the dog - state of affairs!!!

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