Government realises boats exist!

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, Jerra said:

No.  Providing the single person has decided you and your wife are their "support bubble" it can work either way or both,   What isn't permissible is to change support bubbles.  The idea is to allow lonely singles to join with aaa group and in effect be treated as one household as far as living is concerned.  So the bubble can move between both premises, stay overnight, touch etc just as if it was a single household.

 

I suspect it is a step towards mitigating the effects of isolation and loneliness for the single.  Sensibly and rightly IMO.

 

I don't really think whatever rules the govt implement now are going to make much difference because everyone is pretty much doing whatever they want now. Social distancing was never properly observed by a significant proportion of the population and never properly enforced and that non-observant proportion has now increased.

Edited June 11, 2020 by blackrose

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, blackrose said:

 

I don't really think whatever rules the govt implement now are going to make much difference because everyone is pretty much doing whatever they want now. Social distancing was never properly observed by a significant proportion of the population and never properly enforced and that non-observant proportion has now increased.

That description doesn't sound at all like where I live, but then I don't live in a city.  Everyone around here accepts social distancing as if we've been doing it forever.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by WotEver
grammar

[Jerra]

1 minute ago, WotEver said:

That description doesn't sound at all like where I live, but then I don't live in a city.  Everyone around here accepts social distancing as if we've been doing it forever.

 

 

I would say it isn't representative of Cumbria either.

[Glynn]

I have read it and the bit thats interesting is in the heading,

 

'Guidance on inland and coastal boating and protecting yourself and others from coronavirus'

 

Guidance being the word here.

[blackrose]

8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That description doesn't sound at all like where I live, but then I don't live in a city.  Everyone around here accepts social distancing as if we've been doing it forever.

 

 

 

That's not what I've witnessed and not what some people I'm in contact with on social media have admitted that they've been doing. As a key worker I've seen people in factories just not bothering to try to stay apart. I don't live in a city either by the way.

Edited June 11, 2020 by blackrose

[matty40s]

18 minutes ago, WotEver said:

That description doesn't sound at all like where I live, but then I don't live in a city.  Everyone around here accepts social distancing as if we've been doing it forever.

 

 

Our marina, workshop and brokerage has been the epitome of self distancing/ safe working/ self isolation/ shielding. Most of the local area has been similar, along with most shops and customers.

However, I was returning back the other day with laden bags, and a new boat owner (well over 60) shouted to me that he wanted assistance lighting his diesel stove. He strode up to me, chomping a sandwich and invaded my space, crumbs flying out of his mouth as he asked again. I moved backwards and he came forward,  so I forgot how to light a diesel stove and bade my farewell.

Edited June 11, 2020 by matty40s

[wandering snail]

6 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Our marina, workshop and brokerage has been the epitome of self distancing/ safe working/ self isolation/ shielding. Most of the local area has been similar, along with most shops and customers.

However, I was returning back the other day with laden bags, and a new boat owner (well over 60) shouted to me that he wanted assistance lighting his diesel stove. He strode up to me, chomping a sandwich and invaded my space, crumbs flying out of his mouth as he asked again. I moved backwards and he came forward,  so I forgot how to light a diesel stove and bade my farewell.

I must be one of a very few women who asked Eddie Redmayne to back off as he got closer and closer to me in M&S last week.

[blackrose]

I'm not just talking about social distancing, it's also the rules of the lockdown that are being contravened. That's more difficult to see and I'm just going by what people are telling me, where they're staying overnight, etc.

[Richard10002]

5 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Our marina, workshop and brokerage has been the epitome of self distancing/ safe working/ self isolation/ shielding. Most of the local area has been similar, along with most shops and customers.

However, I was returning back the other day with laden bags, and a new boat owner (well over 60) shouted to me that he wanted assistance lighting his diesel stove. He strode up to me, chomping a sandwich and invaded my space, crumbs flying out of his mouth as he asked again. I moved backwards and he came forward,  so I forgot how to light a diesel stove and bade my farewell.

I think I have said before that I have had to be quite rude on occasions to people like the old guy you describe.

 

"Dont worry - You wont get the virus from me!" said one chap, as I was backing away and trying to avoid being cornered.

 

"The government aren't bothered about this distancing anymore, so why should I be!", said another.

 

At 1m, it is quite clear that the visible spittle of others is likely to reach you, (so God knows where the invisible stuff is landing). At 2m, it is clear that the risks are reduced massively.

 

Add to this a whole variety of virus spreading get togethers on towpaths and narrow moorings, requiring anyone passing to run the gauntlet, and there is no surprise that many have been infected, and may have died.

[WotEver]

31 minutes ago, blackrose said:

I don't live in a city either by the way.

I'm aware of that, but it sounded as if you were describing folk who do.  In my town and the villages around it I'm unaware of any social gatherings or people getting closer than 2 metres.  I did an Asda shop today and most of the shoppers, including myself, were wearing masks.

[Arthur Marshall]

7 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

I think I have said before that I have had to be quite rude on occasions to people like the old guy you describe.

 

"Dont worry - You wont get the virus from me!" said one chap, as I was backing away and trying to avoid being cornered.

 

"The government aren't bothered about this distancing anymore, so why should I be!", said another.

 

At 1m, it is quite clear that the visible spittle of others is likely to reach you, (so God knows where the invisible stuff is landing). At 2m, it is clear that the risks are reduced massively.

 

Add to this a whole variety of virus spreading get togethers on towpaths and narrow moorings, requiring anyone passing to run the gauntlet, and there is no surprise that many have been infected, and may have died.

Don't forget, over 98% of people recover from this. That matters, as does the fact that half those who died have been in care homes, and a lot more with other life threatening problems. It's not that scary, unless you're over 75, and it by no means kills all those either. That being said, I'm quite glad I'm an asocial old fart with only two friends plus the wife!

[frangar]

22 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I'm aware of that, but it sounded as if you were describing folk who do.  In my town and the villages around it I'm unaware of any social gatherings or people getting closer than 2 metres.  I did an Asda shop today and most of the shoppers, including myself, were wearing masks.

Interesting because around here thankfully few are wearing masks to shop...which in my opinion lead to a false sense of security...I’ve seen very few wearing them properly anyhow....the best I’ve seen is those taking them down to talk.....most masks are designed to stop you breathing in nasties..the filtration depending on quality of mask. As any glasses wearing person will tell you your exhaled air readily escapes around the edges at best. 

[Jerra]

45 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Don't forget, over 98% of people recover from this. 

Are we sure of that?   Using worldometer figures 219409 cases deaths 41279  That by my reckoning is approx 14% deaths.   Anything other than published figures has to be pure fingers crossed guess work.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Don't forget, over 98% of people recover from this...

So if everyone in the country caught it and your figures are correct then only one and a third million people would die?  If half the population caught it, at 2% fatality that's around 700,000 deaths.

1 hour ago, frangar said:

As any glasses wearing person will tell you your exhaled air readily escapes around the edges at best. 

And then won't travel far, which is the point.

[blackrose]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I'm aware of that, but it sounded as if you were describing folk who do.  In my town and the villages around it I'm unaware of any social gatherings or people getting closer than 2 metres.  I did an Asda shop today and most of the shoppers, including myself, were wearing masks.

 

No I wasn't describing people who live in cities. I've seen loads of social gatherings around here. 

[Arthur Marshall]

28 minutes ago, Jerra said:

Are we sure of that?   Using worldometer figures 219409 cases deaths 41279  That by my reckoning is approx 14% deaths.   Anything other than published figures has to be pure fingers crossed guess work.

But there are almost certainly a load more infections than deaths, as a percentage are asymptomatic, and you can only really count the dead. But who knows, really? All the people I know of who have been tested positive have fully recovered bar one who was 98 in a care home.

I'm not saying it's not dangerous, or to stop bothering. We've just got used to having vaccines for stuff that used to kill these numbers regularly, and for large death numbers to only happen in third world countries. But as someone has said, by closing down virtually all other health stuff, we risk losing more to other things - a friend was diagnosed with cancer three months ago and still has no idea when any treatment might start. Plus wrecking the economy, increasing homelessness etc etc. And destroying the quality of our lives while we still have them. You can't isolate everyone until there's a vaccine,and you can't legislate away a virus.

[Jerra]

19 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

But there are almost certainly a load more infections than deaths, as a percentage are asymptomatic, and you can only really count the dead. But who knows, really? All the people I know of who have been tested positive have fully recovered bar one who was 98 in a care home.

If they have been tested they are one of the 219409 cases.   Considering anything other is as I say pure guess work as nobody knows how many have been at home untested and/or how many were ill thought they had covid-19 but were ill with something else.

[Athy]

3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

You need to be a better barracks room lawyer.

 

 

 

 

I've never tried to be any kind of one, I'm just trying to work out how these current rules apply to me. So far I have learned that I can stay on my boat on my own, that I can stay on it with my wife, and that I can't stay on it at all. CART really needs to be clearer in their instructions.

[john6767]

At today’s briefing Matt “no app” Hancock confirmed that 70% to 80% of people infected are asymptomatic, so there at about 4 times as many people getting it now than are tested positive.  That assumes that anyone with symptoms gets tested, which previously was not the case.  That confirmed to me the biggest issue in controlling this, you can track and trace all you want but you are only considering 20% of cases.

[WotEver]

56 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

... who knows, really?

The WHO says (today) that...

 

”Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.”

[Arthur Marshall]

5 minutes ago, WotEver said:

The WHO says (today) that...

 

”Globally, about 3.4% of reported COVID-19 cases have died. By comparison, seasonal flu generally kills far fewer than 1% of those infected.”

Reported. And 70%+ asymptomatic, so don't get reported, but do get infected and (probably) develop antibodies. Flu always has symptoms, so the comparison simply makes no sense. About the only reliable statistic we have and can be sure of is that almost everything we are told is either deliberate fabrication or guesswork.  Ferguson's last bit of guff was based on "modelling", done with unreliable data and dodgy algorithms.

 

[WotEver]

16 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Reported. And 70%+ asymptomatic, so don't get reported, but do get infected and (probably) develop antibodies. Flu always has symptoms, so the comparison simply makes no sense. 

Fair points

 

Except... how do we know that Flu always has symptoms? Perhaps a large number of people contract Flu and are asymptomatic...

[Momac]

7 hours ago, WotEver said:

 

Except... how do we know that Flu always has symptoms? Perhaps a large number of people contract Flu and are asymptomatic...

That was my thought too.

I have occasionally felt a cold starting and it has come to nothing - eg no symptoms the next day. So the possibility of no symptoms at all cant be excluded.

It does  seem logical to conclude  that any virus could be the same - you can carry it but have no symptoms.

 

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I have occasionally felt a cold starting and it has come to nothing - eg no symptoms the next day.

Me too. 

[Athy]

8 hours ago, john6767 said:

At today’s briefing Matt “no app” Hancock confirmed that 70% to 80% of people infected are asymptomatic,

That's very reassuring.