Broker Recommended Surveyor

[madsunday]

So I have put the deposit down on a boat (eek!)

 

I had already been looking up surveyors, and one seems to have favourable reviews on here. However I also hear alot of people saying not to use the surveyors recommended by the broker, and the surveyor I was thinking of using was then recommended by the broker.

 

Would you avoid them just because the broker recommended them?

 

ps. Im buying from Whilton, I know they dont have a great reputation on here but they had the boat I wanted for a price I was happy to pay. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, madsunday said:

So I have put the deposit down on a boat (eek!)

 

I had already been looking up surveyors, and one seems to have favourable reviews on here. However I also hear alot of people saying not to use the surveyors recommended by the broker, and the surveyor I was thinking of using was then recommended by the broker.

 

Would you avoid them just because the broker recommended them?

 

ps. Im buying from Whilton, I know they dont have a great reputation on here but they had the boat I wanted for a price I was happy to pay. 

The important thing is that it's 'your' survey which gives you some limited comeback. That said I think most brokers will have at least a short list of brokers rather than just a 'recomended' sole broker, so you might want to ask for more recommendations on here, you are after all at liberty to use whoever you wish as you are paying.

 

If any brokerage ever stated you couldnt use a particular surveyor that would be the signal to walk away (they may have found them too thorough in the past).

Edited June 11, 2020 by The Happy Nomad

[Alan de Enfield]

39 minutes ago, madsunday said:

So I have put the deposit down on a boat (eek!)

 

I had already been looking up surveyors, and one seems to have favourable reviews on here. However I also hear alot of people saying not to use the surveyors recommended by the broker, and the surveyor I was thinking of using was then recommended by the broker.

 

Would you avoid them just because the broker recommended them?

 

ps. Im buying from Whilton, I know they dont have a great reputation on here but they had the boat I wanted for a price I was happy to pay. 

DEFINITELY do not use a Surveyor on Whilton's list (without independent referrals) - you only have to look how many boats that have left Whilton with a 'good survey' & have sunk on their way to London.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[mrsmelly]

26 minutes ago, madsunday said:

So I have put the deposit down on a boat (eek!)

 

I had already been looking up surveyors, and one seems to have favourable reviews on here. However I also hear alot of people saying not to use the surveyors recommended by the broker, and the surveyor I was thinking of using was then recommended by the broker.

 

Would you avoid them just because the broker recommended them?

 

ps. Im buying from Whilton, I know they dont have a great reputation on here but they had the boat I wanted for a price I was happy to pay. 

Whilton get some great boats on brokerage, however they also get some dross and own plenty themselves put out as on brokerage. My bro in law bought his first boat from there and I checked it out for him and it was brilliant, only having gone to Whilton as some poor lady recently widowed had it taken to the nearest borkerage to sell it rather than known the history of the brokerage. I bought my present boat through a crap brokereage but i knew it was a good boat and I got it at a very good price. Who is the surveyer? he may well have been used by forum members.

[madsunday]

Cheers mrsmelly. 

 

Was looking at Michael Clarke. Seems to be well respected on here from what I can see, and he is first on the recommended list from Whilton.

 

Potentially looking at Mark Douglas, but cant find any mention of him on this forum. But his reviews elsewhere seem good. 

[mrsmelly]

2 minutes ago, madsunday said:

Cheers mrsmelly. 

 

Was looking at Michael Clarke. Seems to be well respected on here from what I can see, and he is first on the recommended list from Whilton.

 

Potentially looking at Mark Douglas, but cant find any mention of him on this forum. But his reviews elsewhere seem good. 

I dont know either of those but someone will be along who has knowledge of them.

[AllanD]

We bought from Whilton because we found a boat that met our needs and taste. 

We used Chris Williams for the survey and Whilton fixed the items which were needed for the BSS.

We were happy with the whole purchase process and when we sold the boat, 2 years later, the surveyor which the buyer used was satisfied that the our surveyor had provided an accurate report. 

[CV32]

27 minutes ago, madsunday said:

Cheers mrsmelly. 

 

Was looking at Michael Clarke. Seems to be well respected on here from what I can see, and he is first on the recommended list from Whilton.

 

Potentially looking at Mark Douglas, but cant find any mention of him on this forum. But his reviews elsewhere seem good. 

We used Michael for our survey - the boat was at Whilton and the BSS related issues Michael highlighted were fixed before we completed purchase and collected the boat.

[robtheplod]

31 minutes ago, madsunday said:

Cheers mrsmelly. 

 

Was looking at Michael Clarke. Seems to be well respected on here from what I can see, and he is first on the recommended list from Whilton.

 

Potentially looking at Mark Douglas, but cant find any mention of him on this forum. But his reviews elsewhere seem good. 

We used Michael when we bought from Whilton. Did a good thorough survey and got lots done in addition to what was needed. I got written confirmation from him he had no tie-in with Whilton and he was happy to do this. 

[TheBiscuits]

The advice to not just use a surveyor who is linked with a particular broker makes sense, but conversely the well regarded brokers will all give you a list of surveyors who will come to their yard to do surveys - a good surveyor in the Highlands probably won't bother driving to Whilton to do one narrowboat survey and then home again!

 

When there is a thread on Whilton, we get a few people always regurgitating stories of dubious business practices from many years ago, but I don't think I have heard of any recent ones.  Maybe they have improved their service over the years?

 

I don't think you can blame leaky boats on the broker, and some of the horror stories of sinking boats may not have had a survey at all - we simply don't know the actual facts.

 

 

[CLAN1]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

DEFINITELY do not use a Surveyor on Whilton's list (without independent referrals) - you only have to look how many boats that have left Whilton with a 'good survey' & have sunk on their way to London.

Second that 

[Movin' on]

49 minutes ago, AllanD said:

We bought from Whilton because we found a boat that met our needs and taste. 

We used Chris Williams for the survey and Whilton fixed the items which were needed for the BSS.

We were happy with the whole purchase process and when we sold the boat, 2 years later, the surveyor which the buyer used was satisfied that the our surveyor had provided an accurate report. 

Chris Williams VERY GOOD

5 minutes ago, CLAN1 said:

Second that 

THIRD that

20 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

The advice to not just use a surveyor who is linked with a particular broker makes sense, but conversely the well regarded brokers will all give you a list of surveyors who will come to their yard to do surveys - a good surveyor in the Highlands probably won't bother driving to Whilton to do one narrowboat survey and then home again!

 

When there is a thread on Whilton, we get a few people always regurgitating stories of dubious business practices from many years ago, but I don't think I have heard of any recent ones.  Maybe they have improved their service over the years?

 

I don't think you can blame leaky boats on the broker, and some of the horror stories of sinking boats may not have had a survey at all - we simply don't know the actual facts.

 

 

The thing that IMHO makes Wilton an uncomfortable experience is when its one of their boats  and they still pretend to negotiate and ring the owner - just ask outright who owns it.

[TheBiscuits]

6 minutes ago, Halsey said:

The thing that IMHO makes Wilton an uncomfortable experience is when its one of their boats  and they still pretend to negotiate and ring the owner - just ask outright who owns it.

 

Are they still doing that?  I know it did sometimes happen in the past, but I don't know if that's still the case.

 

Passing off stock boats as brokerage boats was a very serious matter due to the differences in liabilites for the broker.  This is different to "talking to the manager to get you a deal" which is a common practice in direct sales - ask anyone who has ever bought double glazing or a car!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Movin' on]

7 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Are they still doing that?  I know it did sometimes happen in the past, but I don't know if that's still the case.

 

Passing off stock boats as brokerage boats was a very serious matter due to the differences in liabilites for the broker.  This is different to "talking to the manager to get you a deal" which is a common practice in direct sales - ask anyone who has ever bought double glazing or a car!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am talking of a direct experience but a good few years ago when they weren't so open about their own internal trading 

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

DEFINITELY do not use a Surveyor on Whilton's list (without independent referrals) - you only have to look how many boats that have left Whilton with a 'good survey' & have sunk on their way to London.

Where can I find that information, I have never read of a single case

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

I don't think you can blame leaky boats on the broker, and some of the horror stories of sinking boats may not have had a survey at all - we simply don't know the actual facts.

We do on a couple of examples where the buyers have posted their saga here.

30 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Where can I find that information, I have never read of a single case

 

The buyers in a couple of cases have posted their stories on this forum.

57 minutes ago, Halsey said:

Chris Williams VERY GOOD

THIRD that

The thing that IMHO makes Wilton an uncomfortable experience is when its one of their boats  and they still pretend to negotiate and ring the owner - just ask outright who owns it.

And the sales staff (did) lie - ask one of the 'workers' in the shed at the far end of the marina, they can tell you who owns it.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

We do on a couple of examples where the buyers have posted their saga here.

 

Can you find any recent ones Alan, say the last 5 years or so?  All the threads I found seem to be be people talking about cases from years ago.

 

If you are thinking of the "shotblast and sink" saga that wasn't Whilton ...

[Alan de Enfield]

10 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

f you are thinking of the "shotblast and sink" saga that wasn't Whilton ...

No I am not.

There was a couple who bought their 1st boat, had it surveyed by what turned out to be some relation of the manager, they then asked for some help in maneuvering it out of the moorings and were offered a series of handling lessons by the Managers cousin. Its a family business - nowt wrong with that until it impacts on impartiality.

 

They got half way down to London and it sank.

 

A while later there was another similar story.

 

I seem to recall that Matty had some something similar with them.

[ditchcrawler]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No I am not.

There was a couple who bought their 1st boat, had it surveyed by what turned out to be some relation of the manager, they then asked for some help in maneuvering it out of the moorings and were offered a series of handling lessons by the Managers cousin. Its a family business - nowt wrong with that until it impacts on impartiality.

 

They got half way down to London and it sank.

 

A while later there was another similar story.

 

I seem to recall that Matty had some something similar with them.

I think it must have been before I joined the forum

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I think it must have been before I joined the forum

I'm pretty sure it was way after 2005.

[TheBiscuits]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

There was a couple who bought their 1st boat, had it surveyed by what turned out to be some relation of the manager, they then asked for some help in maneuvering it out of the moorings and were offered a series of handling lessons by the Managers cousin. Its a family business - nowt wrong with that until it impacts on impartiality.

 

They got half way down to London and it sank.

 

The only post I have found so far is this one, which involves several boats, and is a 6 year-old tale of something older than that:

  

On 27/11/2014 at 10:39, Alan de Enfield said:

There are a number of stories here if you do a search - they vary from "it sunk on the way to London - just a cople of days after purchase' to another where "the surveyor they recommended was a relative of the salesman, and, being novices, we booked a training session, which was run by the salesman's uncle, once we got out on our own the boat was a total disaster, nothing worked .............."

 

They do have some very expensive boats, which may be of good quality, but if you intend to use a surveyor, make sure you choose one, not the one that they push onto you.

 

I did try to buy a boat from them - but failed - I was told by an employee it was 'stock' boat but the salesman denied it - when I asked for confirmation that they owned it, and that any sale, would be subject to the Trades Description Act. I was then told that "they would not accept my offer"

 

I'll keep looking, but that's a 6 year old thread and was retelling of older instances.

[Movin' on]

I think the detail loses the point for the OP - the point is if you are new to all this use an independent surveyor and if buying from Whilton be aware of their rep and be extra vigilant - no more than that.

 

 

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, madsunday said:

So I have put the deposit down on a boat (eek!)

 

I had already been looking up surveyors, and one seems to have favourable reviews on here. However I also hear alot of people saying not to use the surveyors recommended by the broker, and the surveyor I was thinking of using was then recommended by the broker.

 

Would you avoid them just because the broker recommended them?

 

ps. Im buying from Whilton, I know they dont have a great reputation on here but they had the boat I wanted for a price I was happy to pay. 

 

What's the benefit of going with the surveyor that the broker recommends? The only one I can think of is that you don't need to make any effort to find your own. On the other hand here might be some distinct disadvantages. I'd trust that lot as far as I could throw them. Sorry but it's the truth. 

[blackrose]

3 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

The advice to not just use a surveyor who is linked with a particular broker makes sense, but conversely the well regarded brokers will all give you a list of surveyors who will come to their yard to do surveys - a good surveyor in the Highlands probably won't bother driving to Whilton to do one narrowboat survey and then home again!

 

When there is a thread on Whilton, we get a few people always regurgitating stories of dubious business practices from many years ago, but I don't think I have heard of any recent ones.  Maybe they have improved their service over the years?

 

I don't think you can blame leaky boats on the broker, and some of the horror stories of sinking boats may not have had a survey at all - we simply don't know the actual facts.

 

 

 

I know the facts about another boat bought from whilton only a few years ago on the strength of a previous survey that Whilton waved in the face of the prospective purchaser. He became my neighbour for 3 years so I know exactly what happened. 

 

If course it was his own fault for not getting his own survey done but whilton must have known that the entire floor was completely rotten and the boat required a full refit. Or if they didn't know they should have.

 

The point is they don't care. It was agreed prior to sale that Whilton would fix the dump through pump out tank as it had rusted through at the top where the toilet sat on it. What did they do - stuck a sheet of plywood on top with mastic, painted it so he wouldn't notice and mounted the toilet on that! Bunch of rogues!

Edited June 11, 2020 by blackrose

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

 

I know the facts about another boat bought from whilton only a few years ago on the strength of a previous survey that Whilton waved in the face of the prospective purchaser. He became my neighbour for 3 years so I know exactly what happened. 

 

If course it was his own fault for not getting his own survey done but whilton must have known that the floor was completely rotten and the boat required a full refit. If they didn't know they should have done. The point is they don't care. It was agreed prior to sale that Whilton would fix the dump through pump out tank as it had rusted through at the top where the toilet sat on it. What did they do - stuck a sheet of plywood on top with mastic and mounted the toilet on that! Bunch of rogues!

 

Fair enough.  Can you put a slightly more exact date on that than a "few years" ago?   I'm thinking that if he bought the boat and immediately moored next to you for three years was that on your current mooring or at a previous one, and if so when did you leave there.  I seem to remember you swapped sides of the country a few years ago ...

 

I sometimes find myself thinking of things that happened a "few years" ago that turns out to be more like a decade!

 

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm just wondering if the reputation they fully earned for shady business ten years ago is still valid advice to be giving on the forum.  A warning that they have been known for sharp practice in the past is very different to advising people not to deal with them "because they are crooks" today.