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Red oxide, specific for boats?


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Hello,

 

I’m about to undertake the daunting task of painting my boat. I’ve got rust to treat which I was planning on sanding away, then rust converter then red oxide (have been recommended this process from quite a few people) 

I was just wondering, the red oxide primer that’s sold specifically for narrow boats is about three times the price of red oxide primers that you buy in DIY shops (hammerite etc.) are they actually different and is it worth spending the money on the more expensive red oxide?

 

thanks ! 

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Some really are much better than others but I can't provide a list of the good and bad ones.

 

Where is the rust (I assume above the waterline)?

How bad is it....could you remove it totally to get to shiny bare metal?

How much rust?  just a few small patches or extensive rust over much of the boat?

 

...............Dave

and is this a tidy up of an old boat or do you plan to end up with a smart shiny boat type finish?

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Now a days most paints are terrible water based muck.

 

Buy the expensive stuff with the highest VOC rating you can find

Read the can, If you clean the brushes with detergent and water, pass it by.  Look for thinning and cleaning with white spirit or turps sub in the instructions.

 

Vactan is a good rust stopper. it primes as well. Fertan works but washing it off is a pain. For the brave who know the risks, pure phosphoric acid is wonderful

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I did get some phosphoric acid, it wrecked some paint and scared me, so I went back to Vactan! I've just done the front deck which took two tins of red lead, the first of which (from the local hardware shop) turned out to be water based. Quick drying it said. No idea how much rust protection it gives, but it was pretty thin stuff. Luckily the second tin, from Screwfix, was oil based, much thicker and obviously better quality.  I use ordinary gloss generally on the sides, Trade paint from the paint shop rather than b&q, again oil based rather than water.  Paint shop man reckons it makes a huge difference and is worth the money.

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23 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I've just done the front deck which took two tins of red lead

 

I think you mean red oxide. Red lead was banned from sale a number of years ago. You can still get it for specific heritage uses, if you know where to look, but you certainly won't find it in the local hardware shop or Screwfix.

I have used red lead in the past, and even without any further paint coats applied it stops rust dead for years. Shame there's nothing like it available now!

Edited by David Mack
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Since the red lead is no longer available (banned by the nanny state(s)), I treat any rust then Craftmaster grey zinc primer, followed by raddle red if I want the red lead look, or the undercoat and gloss of choice. CM natch. It's brilliant, just works. Expensive, yes but if I'm doing the job I'd rather do it right and only do it once. YMMV

Edited by Rick-n-Jo
bloody autocorrect. raffle red FFS
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22 minutes ago, Rick-n-Jo said:

Since the red lead is no longer available (banned by the nanny state(s))

Yeah, cos a bit of lead never hurt no-one, eh? :D  There may be some nannying about, but I'm not sure lead additives didn't need a bit of reigning in, and you do seem to have found a rather acceptable alternative if I'm understanding "It's brilliant, just works." correctly. 

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Try Baileys paints based in Stroud , Gloucestershire. They manufacture their own brushing red oxide. It’s terrific stuff. And not  at all expensive. no idea what delivery charges are but definitely worth a look. They also do it in a light shade of grey that looks well on a boat. 
 

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If you pretend you have a vintage boat then you can buy red lead paint. A few years back a place in Bristol sold it but it was a bit expensive. Nothing matches it today IMHO. Most red oxides are a waste of space if not solvent based.

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11 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

If you pretend you have a vintage boat then you can buy red lead paint. A few years back a place in Bristol sold it but it was a bit expensive. Nothing matches it today IMHO. Most red oxides are a waste of space if not solvent based.

It’s still made and you can buy it, but only (it appears) for a suitable period property or a work of art. 
https://historicengland.org.uk/advice/technical-advice/buildings/building-materials-for-historic-buildings/sourcing-lead-paint/

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11 hours ago, plato said:

Try Baileys paints based in Stroud , Gloucestershire. They manufacture their own brushing red oxide. It’s terrific stuff. And not  at all expensive. no idea what delivery charges are but definitely worth a look. They also do it in a light shade of grey that looks well on a boat. 
 

Thankyou! 

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13 hours ago, dmr said:

Some really are much better than others but I can't provide a list of the good and bad ones.

 

Where is the rust (I assume above the waterline)?

How bad is it....could you remove it totally to get to shiny bare metal?

How much rust?  just a few small patches or extensive rust over much of the boat?

 

...............Dave

and is this a tidy up of an old boat or do you plan to end up with a smart shiny boat type finish?

Rust is mainly on the roof, it’s not loads but but there are a few patches that are worth worrying about. I’m planning on repainting the whole thing (so ending up with as smart and shiny as a amateur can get)

12 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Now a days most paints are terrible water based muck.

 

Buy the expensive stuff with the highest VOC rating you can find

Read the can, If you clean the brushes with detergent and water, pass it by.  Look for thinning and cleaning with white spirit or turps sub in the instructions.

 

Vactan is a good rust stopper. it primes as well. Fertan works but washing it off is a pain. For the brave who know the risks, pure phosphoric acid is wonderful

Thanks! 

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13 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

 

Vactan is a good rust stopper. it primes as well. Fertan works but washing it off is a pain. For the brave who know the risks, pure phosphoric acid is wonderful

 

From my experience I'd say they both work in stopping rust (they're both have the same active ingredient which I belive is tannic acid?), however the polymer base used in Vactan is not a good metal primer in my opinion, so if you're using a rust converter it is worth the extra effort of using Fertan then all you've done is convert the rust and you can use a decent primer on the steel.

 

Personally if you're painting outside and don't have use of a covered dock, then I'd avoid the use of any primer that is porus like most red oxides because if it rains for a few weeks and you can't get undercoats and top coats on then the porus primer is just sitting there getting wet. Better to use a couple of coats of Bonda Primer which looks like red oxide but is alkyd resin based and impervious to moisture.

 

https://www.homecareessentials.co.uk/products/bonda-rust-primer-500ml/bon12246

 

Leave it for a week then give it a good key and apply a couple of coats of good quality undercoat (Hemple Primer/Undercoat 13201 is my favourite) and then your top coats.

6 minutes ago, Captain Fizz said:

Probably worth spending a little time watching John Barnard's Utube series on boat painting, very informative!

Yes, a very good series of videos.

Edited by blackrose
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2 hours ago, Kismet said:

Rust is mainly on the roof, it’s not loads but but there are a few patches that are worth worrying about. I’m planning on repainting the whole thing (so ending up with as smart and shiny as a amateur can get)

Thanks! 

The roof has a hard time and usually fails well before the sides. A wire (cup) brush in an angle grinder is my derusting tool of choice. If you can get back to bare clean steel then no need for a rust treatment, rust treatments are a compromise fix to be used only when you can't clear the rust, certainly NOT to be used on clean steel as a precaution. If there are one or two pits a grinding stone in a Dremel can dig them out, otherwise it will be local use of a rust treatment.

 

If there are just a few patches of rust then Bondaprimer is my chosen primer, but if its extensive then get a tin of boaty primer. Craftmaster do good paints though I have not used their primer. Get undercoats on as soon as you can, don't leave the primer exposed for weeks on end.   Some primers from the DIY shops really are useless. I tried the Hammerite stuff years ago and was not impressed.

 

I have used Bondaprimer all my life  (VW campers before the boat) and it works, it also dries super quick so you can get two coats on, and an undercoat, in the same day.

 

If it fits in with your desired image then a Raddle red style roof is easier to maintain than a gloss one. Raddle red (or grey) looks good on many boats, not just old trads. A roof will likely need some repairs every two or three years.

 

.............Dave

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5 minutes ago, dmr said:

The roof has a hard time and usually fails well before the sides. A wire (cup) brush in an angle grinder is my derusting tool of choice. If you can get back to bare clean steel then no need for a rust treatment, rust treatments are a compromise fix to be used only when you can't clear the rust, certainly NOT to be used on clean steel as a precaution. If there are one or two pits a grinding stone in a Dremel can dig them out, otherwise it will be local use of a rust treatment.

 

If there are just a few patches of rust then Bondaprimer is my chosen primer, but if its extensive then get a tin of boaty primer. Craftmaster do good paints though I have not used their primer. Get undercoats on as soon as you can, don't leave the primer exposed for weeks on end.   Some primers from the DIY shops really are useless. I tried the Hammerite stuff years ago and was not impressed.

 

I have used Bondaprimer all my life  (VW campers before the boat) and it works, it also dries super quick so you can get two coats on, and an undercoat, in the same day.

 

If it fits in with your desired image then a Raddle red style roof is easier to maintain than a gloss one. Raddle red (or grey) looks good on many boats, not just old trads. A roof will likely need some repairs every two or three years.

 

.............Dave

Thanks Dave , really helpful advice! 

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