Hello ?

[LiamJackson1991]

Hello everyone. 

So I kind of done a thing and bought something I know nothing about ?

 

I'm buying a 22foot 1975 Norman Viking cabin cruiser (I think it's a cabin cruiser) 

 

I've done as much research as I can and I know about the licensing and BSS and insurance.

 

The boat will be moored at Ellesmere port. 

 

Basically I'm 29 I've done an impulse buy ? but I've opened a whole new world for myself and the kids

 

Does anyone know the nearest slipway to Ellesmere port marina on the Shropshire Union canal as I can't seem to find any information. 

 

Thank you

 

PS: Can't wait to start working on her ?

 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by LiamJackson1991
Spelling

[Alan de Enfield]

Have you investigated getting an engine ?

Have you found a mooring at Ellesmere port , or where do you intend to keep it ?

 

Welcome to the financial bottomless pit that is boating - you may well have heard that BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand.

[LiamJackson1991]

4 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Have you investigated getting an engine ?

Have you found a mooring at Ellesmere port , or where do you intend to keep it ?

 

Welcome to the financial bottomless pit that is boating - you may well have heard that BOAT = Bring Out Another Thousand.

 

I've been looking at engines for the past 2-3 hours. A little 5hp outboard sounds perfect and they are readily available.

I've already talked to Ellesmere port marina and they have given me prices and info about it all. 

 

And thank you for the welcome

[KenK]

A couple of options on here  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/24057-slipways-on-middle-branch.pdf

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, LiamJackson1991 said:

 

I've been looking at engines for the past 2-3 hours. A little 5hp outboard sounds perfect and they are readily available.

I've already talked to Ellesmere port marina and they have given me prices and info about it all. 

 

And thank you for the welcome

I'd suggest you go for a 9.9hp (or a little bigger).

It is not the power to move the boat, that's important but remember that a boat doesn't have brakes and you need the power to pull your boat to a quick stop in the event of an emergency.

[LiamJackson1991]

2 minutes ago, KenK said:

A couple of options on here  https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/media/original/24057-slipways-on-middle-branch.pdf

That is exactly what i needed  Very big thank you

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I'd suggest you go for a 9.9hp (or a little bigger).

I have been looking at bigger engine i just thought 5hp would be ok. Ill have a look at that now. Thank you

[ditchcrawler]

I didn't know there was an Ellesmere Port Marina

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I didn't know there was an Ellesmere Port Marina

There isn’t 

But there is an area down the bottom below the museum where you can moor. 
Some of it is owned by the museum and some by the council. 
You can get permanent moorings with either. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Goliath

[LiamJackson1991]

Yes you can moor but its at the bottom below the museum as mentioned above
I've already talked to them about keeping it there

Edited June 6, 2020 by LiamJackson1991

[Mad Harold]

Looks like a Norman 22 to me.

Agree that 5hp is a bit small for these boats.

Suggest that you google Norman Owner's Forum,and you will find lots of info and specialised knowledge of Norman boats.

As well as staying on CWF of course!

[LiamJackson1991]

4 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

Looks like a Norman 22 to me.

Agree that 5hp is a bit small for these boats.

Suggest that you google Norman Owner's Forum,and you will find lots of info and specialised knowledge of Norman boats.

As well as staying on CWF of course!

Thank you for the information  Much appreciated.

[LadyG]

Well, ain't you brave, well done that man!

Looks fine in two out for three photos, well, that ain't bad.

 

[tree monkey]

Welcome, I take it you are from the Port? 

 

[BilgePump]

Welcome to the forum and congratulations / commiserations on taking the plunge into boat projects!

 

That looks like a Norman 23. You can see one here in the foreground, in the background is a Norman 20 (see  http://www.normanboats.co.uk/brief_history_of_norman_cruisers.htm )

 

And they're great boats, so you're starting with an old shell of good reputation. Now all you need is a good supply of deep breaths for each bill that comes in for you to sort it out!

 

A 5hp is alright on a smaller boat like 17-19' but I'd concur that you need something with a bit more oomph for your boat (the one in the pic has an 85hp outboard, bit too much for the cut)

 

Are you planning to do all the work on hardstanding or launch asap and work on it in the water? Marinas will readily supply fees etc on request but they can always say no to a particular boat or prospective customer once it get's to a mooring contract. Don't always bank on a marina being prepared to accept a boat that is a running / floating project. You might need a contingency plan for where to moor it if you want to go in the water before all work is done.

 

Obviously you realise that it's going to need a BSS test before getting a long term licence. If wanting to work on it in the water, you could get a test on it without any installed systems (gas, electric etc) except the outboard  but you will need to get a retest once you fit them.

 

Bit of spit, polish, elbow grease and plenty of pieces of paper with the Queen's head on them and you will have a cracking family boat. Enjoy the journey.

[blackrose]

53 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

 

A 5hp is alright on a smaller boat like 17-19' but I'd concur that you need something with a bit more oomph for your boat (the one in the pic has an 85hp outboard, bit too much for the cut)

 

 

I've got a 5hp outboard on my little 10ft open dinghy and I wouldn't want any smaller. If you're taking that 22ft Norman on rivers then you'll want at least 15hp

 

 

Alan de Enfield shared an image recently on another thread showing how to measure the outboard shaft length you needed based on the boat's transom dimensions. If you have a look around you might find it as it would be useful.

Edited June 7, 2020 by blackrose

[Alan de Enfield]

Here it is :

 

 

[BilgePump]

It's supposed to be a longshaft according to http://www.normanboats.co.uk/norman_range.htm but I would double and treble check the transom on any boat to make sure it is original height and information correct.

[Alan de Enfield]

31 minutes ago, BilgePump said:

It's supposed to be a longshaft according to http://www.normanboats.co.uk/norman_range.htm but I would double and treble check the transom on any boat to make sure it is original height and information correct.

It is not unknown for someone who has a shortshaft to 'save money' and cut down the transom on a boat.

 

IT IS always wise to measure it before buying.

[LiamJackson1991]

2 hours ago, tree monkey said:

Welcome, I take it you are from the Port? 

 

I live in Birkenhead so the port is the closest place i can moor it.

 

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

Are you planning to do all the work on hardstanding or launch asap and work on it in the water? Marinas will readily supply fees etc on request but they can always say no to a particular boat or prospective customer once it get's to a mooring contract. Don't always bank on a marina being prepared to accept a boat that is a running / floating project. You might need a contingency plan for where to moor it if you want to go in the water before all work is done.

I have already rang up and had a good conversation about mooring. I explained the boat as much as i could and told them it is a project and they seemed fine and they were very helpful aswell.

The nearest slipway to Ellesmere port is Tattenhall marina so i need to give them a ring on monday to talk about getting it in the water and towing it with a friends boat or going to try and rob his outboard untill its moored.

 

1 hour ago, BilgePump said:

Obviously you realise that it's going to need a BSS test before getting a long term licence. If wanting to work on it in the water, you could get a test on it without any installed systems (gas, electric etc) except the outboard  but you will need to get a retest once you fit them.

 

That was the first thing i looked at. At the moment it has no gas/electric at all so im going to apply for it being exempt until i install then get a retest

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone

[BilgePump]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

It is not unknown for someone who has a shortshaft to 'save money' and cut down the transom on a boat.

 

IT IS always wise to measure it before buying.

^^^^^ Yes. Often see adverts where it says 'needs work to transom' which is usually a sign that someone has taken a chainsaw to it and then abandoned the project. Have had them in the past and current boat has had some unwelcome modification to the transom. Fortunately for the OP this example looks unmolested but as we say, always measure, then measure again!

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, LiamJackson1991 said:

That was the first thing i looked at. At the moment it has no gas/electric at all so im going to apply for it being exempt until i install then get a retest

I think that the only exempt boats are those without a cabin.

You will still need a 'basic' BSS which you can 'upgrade' as new services are installed.

 

If you speak to C&RT they can authorise you to 'move a boat for repair' without a BSS or licence and "it will not be unreasonably refused".

 

Speak to them and get confirmation in writing before you move it.

 

 

10)Section 3 (Construction and equipment of vessels) of the Act of 1983 shall cease to have effect.

(11)(a)The refusal or withdrawal by the Board of a relevant consent in respect of any vessel on the grounds that the vessel does not comply with the standards applicable to that vessel shall not preclude the movement or use of the vessel with the consent of the Board (which shall not be unreasonably withheld) and subject to such reasonable conditions (if any) as they may determine.

(b)Without prejudice to the generality of paragraph (a) above, the Board shall not withhold their consent under this subsection to the movement or use of a vessel for the purpose of taking it to a place where it may be repaired or modified so as to comply with the standards applicable to it, or for the purpose of taking the vessel to be destroyed, unless such movement or use would give rise to the risk of obstruction or danger to navigation or to persons or property.

(c)Nothing in this section shall affect the operation of section 7 (Control of unsafe vessels) of the Act of 1983.

[BilgePump]

4 minutes ago, LiamJackson1991 said:

I live in Birkenhead so the port is the closest place i can moor it.

 

I have already rang up and had a good conversation about mooring. I explained the boat as much as i could and told them it is a project and they seemed fine and they were very helpful aswell.

The nearest slipway to Ellesmere port is Tattenhall marina so i need to give them a ring on monday to talk about getting it in the water and towing it with a friends boat or going to try and rob his outboard untill its moored.

 

That was the first thing i looked at. At the moment it has no gas/electric at all so im going to apply for it being exempt until i install then get a retest

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone

It seems that a cabin boat can only be exempt if it has no electrical, gas, fuel systems etc and no engine (not even a little outboard). Only an open boat with an outboard and no systems can be exempt these days.

 

If you just need the engine on for a few days before mooring up, you can always get a one week short term licence with self declared safety, then take off engine and get a long term licence with unpowered exemption until you've got a BSS test for it and can then go out cruising.

[LiamJackson1991]

Ahhh ok  cheers for all the info guys. I done a head first dive into the deep end ?

Ill give them a call and see what the best way going about it is.

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, LiamJackson1991 said:

Ahhh ok  cheers for all the info guys. I done a head first dive into the deep end ?

Ill give them a call and see what the best way going about it is.

 

32 minutes ago, LiamJackson1991 said:

I live in Birkenhead so the port is the closest place i can moor it.

 

I have already rang up and had a good conversation about mooring. I explained the boat as much as i could and told them it is a project and they seemed fine and they were very helpful aswell.

The nearest slipway to Ellesmere port is Tattenhall marina so i need to give them a ring on monday to talk about getting it in the water and towing it with a friends boat or going to try and rob his outboard untill its moored.

 

That was the first thing i looked at. At the moment it has no gas/electric at all so im going to apply for it being exempt until i install then get a retest

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone

Did mean to quote two posts.

 

Can you not get it in at Chester at Taylors boat yard, that way you would have a straight run to the Port

[BilgePump]

Does it have to be a slipway? As the boat is on hardstanding already it's got to be lifted onto something, beit a lowloader or boat trailer. If you've got a trailer and tow vehicle, great, but if not might it be more cost effective to just have it lifted onto a truck, driven to destinartion and lifted in?