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Tewkesbury to North Kilworth - canal journey planner?


Jacsprat

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15 minutes ago, Jacsprat said:

 

True Rob - that is my back-up plan precisely. It'll add a day to my total journey and about 20 locks over the move, but still doable. Thank you!

It may not be that much of a difference to your journey time. Certainly not if you are taking those times from Canal Plan.

 

I wouldn’t bet against the transit time to complete the 42 locks from Astwood bottom to Tardebigge top being less than the net time required to complete the ascent of the 16(?) locks on the Avon.

 

Even single handing it’s possible to better the Canal Plan default times for the Worcester & Birmingham as the default lock times are conservative and the W&B locks are very quick. With crew you’ll be way ahead. The upper parts of the Lapworth flight are also very easy, more so than the locks on the southern Stratford.

 

JP

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To add to the above , if you are forced to go via the Trent and Soar then the best route is probably up the Severn to Stourport, Staffs & Worcs to Great Haywood and T&M to Shardlow to join the Trent. It saves on having to climb to the Birmingham level only to have to drop down again.

Edited by Captain Pegg
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1 minute ago, Captain Pegg said:

It may not be that much of a difference to your journey time. Certainly not if you are taking those times from Canal Plan.

 

I wouldn’t bet against the transit time to complete the 42 locks from Astwood bottom to Tardebigge top being less than the net time required to complete the ascent of the 16(?) locks on the Avon.

 

Even single handing it’s possible to better the Canal Plan default times for the Worcester & Birmingham as the default lock times are conservative and the W&B locks are very quick. With crew you’ll be way ahead. The upper parts of the Lapworth flight are also very easy, more so than the locks on the southern Stratford.

 

JP

Good to know JP! The Watford flight closure has just thrown up a new problem though!! Surely they'll be able to repair the gate in the next couple of weeks, even with restrictions in place - fingers crossed. A detour to N Kilworth via Leicester would mean more adventure than I need at the moment... 

I see you're at Droitwich - lovely spot. I tried to get a mooring there as Tewkesbury marina prices have skyrocketed with little on offer anyway. No space for my little boat there though. 

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29 minutes ago, Jacsprat said:

Transport overland is out of the question for price and hassle,

You may be surprised, if you take the cost of fuel, opportunity cost, licences, delays etc into account there may not be a great difference.

 

Its all done in one day irrespective of the weather - you are not sat in the middle of nowhere for days waiting for some obscure engine part and a mechanic to arrive.

 

Yes a nice long cruise is what boats are designed for, but if you are working to time constraints for work etc then you cannot bank on "getting there by water". The way things are going currently there is a high probability that a canal will be closed due to failing infrastructure, or lack of water, and you could be stuck 3/4 of the way, and unable to proceed for several days - it is certainly happening very frequently at the moment.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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3 minutes ago, Jacsprat said:

Good to know JP! The Watford flight closure has just thrown up a new problem though!! Surely they'll be able to repair the gate in the next couple of weeks, even with restrictions in place - fingers crossed. A detour to N Kilworth via Leicester would mean more adventure than I need at the moment... 

I see you're at Droitwich - lovely spot. I tried to get a mooring there as Tewkesbury marina prices have skyrocketed with little on offer anyway. No space for my little boat there though. 

Don’t know about a couple of weeks but it may be best still to head toward Norton/Watford area and wait it out than go the long way round.

 

I’m not in Droitwich marina although I know it well. I live in the town and my boat is on a CRT mooring there.

 

JP

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There's a fair bit of 'beware canal infrastructure failures' in this thread, which makes sense - the network hasn't been used much over the last months and  failures aren't being fixed terribly quickly at present. Well, certainly not on the K &A. Waiting until a failure is fixed is fine, if you can wait somewhere that gives you good access to public transport to get to work, if necessary.

 

It may be less fraught to go by road - definitely quicker, someone else has the hassle of route planning, what if truck breaks down, or is delayed by 'other incident' - you just have to be at the mooring at journey's end!

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1 hour ago, Jacsprat said:

Yes, I can relate to the 'risk averse' issue. Transport overland is out of the question for price and hassle, but breakdown cover is on the cards. I expect I'll very much enjoy this trip despite getting past the Avon restrictions and having a bit of a time constraint. I can always find a temporary secure mooring along the way if I can't make it all the way to N Kilworth in one go. 

I should probably add my advice to you if I'm going to hijack your thread! Personally I'd very much recommend doing it as a boat trip rather overland even if that was an option for you. The very first time I ever steered a NB was the boat I had just bought at Northampton, which I then took a week getting back to Worcester. Due to constraints on my life that's still the longest trip I've ever done, but even if it wasn't I think it would still be the best because it was a trip with a purpose. Almost all single handed.

 

I had done a lot of sailing, so not unfamiliar with boats, but I watched a lot of Youtube videos to work out what to do with locks etc. - it turned out to mostly be easier than I expected.

 

Oh, and single handed I was going faster than the canalplan defaults even on that first trip.

Edited by aracer
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3 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Don’t know about a couple of weeks but it may be best still to head toward Norton/Watford area and wait it out than go the long way round.

A gate on the Watford flight has rotted and fallen away, unless C&RT have a spare in stock which can be modified to suit, the delay will be 'several weeks' whilst a new gate can be built.

Although the gate was 24 years old it was not on the list to be replaced so it is most unlikely to have a 'ready to use' replacement in stock.

 

watfordgate.jpeg

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2 hours ago, aracer said:

I should probably add my advice to you if I'm going to hijack your thread! Personally I'd very much recommend doing it as a boat trip rather overland even if that was an option for you. The very first time I ever steered a NB was the boat I had just bought at Northampton, which I then took a week getting back to Worcester. Due to constraints on my life that's still the longest trip I've ever done, but even if it wasn't I think it would still be the best because it was a trip with a purpose. Almost all single handed.

 

I had done a lot of sailing, so not unfamiliar with boats, but I watched a lot of Youtube videos to work out what to do with locks etc. - it turned out to mostly be easier than I expected.

 

Oh, and single handed I was going faster than the canalplan defaults even on that first trip.

Very encouraging - thank you. Yes, by hook or by crook, I'm boating there. I work two weeks on, two off so can always find a place to moor up (hopefully!) if there are unforseen stoppages, and get back to it on the next chunk of time off. Youtube has been brilliant for tutorials as well - I've had her out a few times on the river now and reckon I'll be just fine once I conquer my first couple of river locks.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

A gate on the Watford flight has rotted and fallen away, unless C&RT have a spare in stock which can be modified to suit, the delay will be 'several weeks' whilst a new gate can be built.

Although the gate was 24 years old it was not on the list to be replaced so it is most unlikely to have a 'ready to use' replacement in stock.

 

watfordgate.jpeg

Yes, started following the Watford woes. By my calculations, I won't be there for about four weeks. Gonna take me chances!

 

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I haven't seen the latest update from ANT, but I was under the impression the locks you have to book got damaged in the flooding and lockdown prevented them fixing them properly.

 

The booking is meant to make it easier for you, not harder as they help you through the booked locks.

 

Ring ANT, they are a great bunch of people and most of them from the chairman to the new junior are keen boaters too.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 13/06/2020 at 08:24, Captain Pegg said:

The ANT is a small private organisation that is funded almost exclusively through the tolls it raises and given the impact Covid-19 will have on their income I think their approach is entirely reasonable irrespective of the status of the boater. I’m not sure they are under any obligation to allow any boater to use their built infrastructure at all.

Well their approach has resulted in reducing their income by at least one toll. Meanwhile it must be costing them money to have to send a team out to operate locks which are usually boater operated.

On 15/06/2020 at 14:55, TheBiscuits said:

I haven't seen the latest update from ANT, but I was under the impression the locks you have to book got damaged in the flooding and lockdown prevented them fixing them properly.

That doesn't appear to be the case at all, certainly not given that they are going back to normal operation on the 4th July. Given the most recent update it's quite clear that they've simply taken an overly restrictive attitude to limiting the movement of those of us who are already allowed to travel.

On 15/06/2020 at 14:55, TheBiscuits said:

The booking is meant to make it easier for you, not harder as they help you through the booked locks.

I'm more than capable of working a lock - it makes it a lot harder as I would have to commit to timings 24 hours in advance, can't get through the locks after 4pm and can't be flexible with my plans. I can't see any way in which having to book locks 24 hours in advance would ever make cruising easier.

 

Their statements are at best disingenuous - for those of us living on our boats absolutely nothing changes on 4th July, yet ANT have decided that they can open the navigation fully then but have to restrict us before.

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41 minutes ago, aracer said:

Well their approach has resulted in reducing their income by at least one toll. Meanwhile it must be costing them money to have to send a team out to operate locks which are usually boater operated.

That doesn't appear to be the case at all, certainly not given that they are going back to normal operation on the 4th July. Given the most recent update it's quite clear that they've simply taken an overly restrictive attitude to limiting the movement of those of us who are already allowed to travel.

I'm more than capable of working a lock - it makes it a lot harder as I would have to commit to timings 24 hours in advance, can't get through the locks after 4pm and can't be flexible with my plans. I can't see any way in which having to book locks 24 hours in advance would ever make cruising easier.

 

Their statements are at best disingenuous - for those of us living on our boats absolutely nothing changes on 4th July, yet ANT have decided that they can open the navigation fully then but have to restrict us before.

I am going to donate the equivalent of a transit toll to the ANT as compensation, I simply don’t think you get the situation at all.


JP

 

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4 hours ago, aracer said:

Well their approach has resulted in reducing their income by at least one toll. Meanwhile it must be costing them money to have to send a team out to operate locks which are usually boater operated.
EVER HEARD OF VOLUNTEERS!! AS YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD ANT ARE A VERY SMALL ORGANISATION.

That doesn't appear to be the case at all, certainly not given that they are going back to normal operation on the 4th July. Given the most recent update it's quite clear that they've simply taken an overly restrictive attitude to limiting the movement of those of us who are already allowed to travel.

SEE ABOVE ABOUT THE SIZE OF THIS ORGANISATION!

I'm more than capable of working a lock - it makes it a lot harder as I would have to commit to timings 24 hours in advance, can't get through the locks after 4pm and can't be flexible with my plans. I can't see any way in which having to book locks 24 hours in advance would ever make cruising easier.

TOUGH! THEIR WATERWAY, THEIR RULES.

Their statements are at best disingenuous - for those of us living on our boats absolutely nothing changes on 4th July, yet ANT have decided that they can open the navigation fully then but have to restrict us before.

 

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3 hours ago, aracer said:

In what way exactly do I not understand the situation? What prevents them from opening the river fully now if they can open it on 4th July?

Probably nothing from a legal perspective but only for the use of liveaboard boaters. The Avon probably hosts a far smaller percentage of liveaboards at any given time than CRT waters so there is potentially the economic disbenefit of them restarting from their position of effective shutdown to enable the passage of reduced craft numbers.

 

From the 4th July the numbers of (legally navigating) boats will be greater and if the ANT have determined that is the expedient moment at which the balance shifts to make it worthwhile for them to restore (near) full operational status then that’s their call as an independent organisation.
 

The status and legal obligations of the ANT are very different from those of CRT. They have effectively been shutdown, presumably in order to minimise their losses and protect their staff, many of whom I suspect are volunteers. Of course they realise there may be some potential customers at the present time but they have made their decision and there is no one better placed than them to know what is best for the Avon Navigation.

 

As boaters who don’t hold a currently valid ANT licence they owe us nothing. The Avon only exists as a navigation because of the ongoing work of the ANT and the work of their forebears and others in restoring it. It’s closure to navigation for a small proportion of boaters for a short period of time in the current situation is utterly trivial. As boaters we should be supporting them and/or other independent waterway organisations whose work we value and/or whose facilities we hope to utilise in better times in whatever way we are able and leave them to decide what is best for their operations.

 

JP
 

 

 

 

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Avon was restored to navigation by a band of dedicated volunteers lead by  a visionary .

It is a miracle that it and the Southern Stratford are even navigable.

Both have suffered from lack of funding and secondhand/ recycled bits and bobs.

When Crt took over the Stratford from the NT they took over a real liability. 
The only way to keep them going is to protect their easily damaged structures. With minimal funding a cost blow out by damaged structure is a disaster.

Thats probably why Hutchins attempted to make the Avon bomb proof with hard concrete and steel structures, bit i bet there is nothing in the budget.

 

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