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Compost toilet question....


robtheplod

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Hi,

 

This is aimed at those that have composting toilets and/or know about the process. I'm looking around at all options and am quite amazed at the cost of the natures head/airhead loos considering they are just moulded plastic (~£900). They do however have the 'stir' ability. My query is really how important is this ability as I see lots of posts elsewhere with people making their own composting toilets for a fraction of the cost of the mainstream ones (and they look very good) but they almost never have the ability to 'stir' ??  Is this vital/nice to have??  I'm guessing it means there is less composting material needed to be added but wasn't sure exactly how much of an issue this would be?  Has anyone made their own on their narrowboat?

 

 

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10 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Hi,

 

This is aimed at those that have composting toilets and/or know about the process. I'm looking around at all options and am quite amazed at the cost of the natures head/airhead loos considering they are just moulded plastic (~£900). They do however have the 'stir' ability. My query is really how important is this ability as I see lots of posts elsewhere with people making their own composting toilets for a fraction of the cost of the mainstream ones (and they look very good) but they almost never have the ability to 'stir' ??  Is this vital/nice to have??  I'm guessing it means there is less composting material needed to be added but wasn't sure exactly how much of an issue this would be?  Has anyone made their own on their narrowboat?

 

 

I don't have one but as I understand it the stirring is just to speed up the drying process, most compost loos are really desiccating loos, the actual composting takes place elsewhere 

 

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22 minutes ago, tree monkey said:

I don't have one but as I understand it the stirring is just to speed up the drying process, most compost loos are really desiccating loos, the actual composting takes place elsewhere 

 

 

 

Stored in buckets under the bed for 6 months (unless you have a plot of land to dump it on)

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23 hours ago, robtheplod said:

Hi,

 

This is aimed at those that have composting toilets and/or know about the process. I'm looking around at all options and am quite amazed at the cost of the natures head/airhead loos considering they are just moulded plastic (~£900). They do however have the 'stir' ability. My query is really how important is this ability as I see lots of posts elsewhere with people making their own composting toilets for a fraction of the cost of the mainstream ones (and they look very good) but they almost never have the ability to 'stir' ??  Is this vital/nice to have??  I'm guessing it means there is less composting material needed to be added but wasn't sure exactly how much of an issue this would be?  Has anyone made their own on their narrowboat?

 

 

There is a very good thread on here by a forum member thats fairly long but informative, I cant quite recall who by but the search engine will be your friend. Whilst I would never have one neverthe less the thread is very good. Frank?? frahkn

Edited by mrsmelly
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On 01/06/2020 at 18:48, robtheplod said:

Hi,

 

This is aimed at those that have composting toilets and/or know about the process. I'm looking around at all options and am quite amazed at the cost of the natures head/airhead loos considering they are just moulded plastic (~£900). They do however have the 'stir' ability. My query is really how important is this ability as I see lots of posts elsewhere with people making their own composting toilets for a fraction of the cost of the mainstream ones (and they look very good) but they almost never have the ability to 'stir' ??  Is this vital/nice to have??  I'm guessing it means there is less composting material needed to be added but wasn't sure exactly how much of an issue this would be?  Has anyone made their own on their narrowboat?

 

 

When something has had to be developed by a manufacturer from scratch with a lot of custom made parts and then sells in relatively small numbers, then the cost can be high. For really expensive try getting a one off item fabricated to your drawings! On my boat I've replaced several parts of the expensive commercially made solar hot water system with home made bits as they have failed. Mine are better and a fraction of the price.

I did have a composting loo in the boat at one point, but never got it working properly and replaced it with a cassette bog. This had a riddling bar to stir up the drying "matter", so it suggests that stirring helps with the drying process. If I were to get another and if it were for an off grid land building, I would seriously consider it I would make one, rather than buy. Would probably involve solvent welding thick PVC sheet and with extensive leak testing before use!

Jen

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5 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

When something has had to be developed by a manufacturer from scratch with a lot of custom made parts and then sells in relatively small numbers, then the cost can be high. For really expensive try getting a one off item fabricated to your drawings! On my boat I've replaced several parts of the expensive commercially made solar hot water system with home made bits as they have failed. Mine are better and a fraction of the price.

I did have a composting loo in the boat at one point, but never got it working properly and replaced it with a cassette bog. This had a riddling bar to stir up the drying "matter", so it suggests that stirring helps with the drying process. If I were to get another and if it were for an off grid land building, I would seriously consider it I would make one, rather than buy. Would probably involve solvent welding thick PVC sheet and with extensive leak testing before use!

Jen

Ineresting post. A genuine question, what do you think would be the reason for trying a composting bog again? I honestly see no benefits in having to empty the wee somewhere anyway and still having bin liners with solids in and storing the stuff or doing what many do and bag it and throw it in the rubbish bins. We have a country wide sewage system easily accessible that one hit disposes of the whole lot from a cassette or porta bog system, very quick and easy. Being a very long term liveaboard now I would love to think a composting bog was easier and quicker but I fail to see how??

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On 01/06/2020 at 19:02, tree monkey said:

I don't have one but as I understand it the stirring is just to speed up the drying process, most compost loos are really desiccating loos, the actual composting takes place elsewhere 

 

In London the actual composting often takes place in normal rubbish bins then landfill. Because many London boaters' "composting toilets" are merely separation devices. Liquid goes into hedgerows if you're lucky, or the cut if not. Solids ... not nice. But then I suppose "disposable" nappies end up in landfill too.

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Just now, Mike on the Wey said:

In London the actual composting often takes place in normal rubbish bins then landfill. Because many London boaters' "composting toilets" are merely separation devices. Liquid goes into hedgerows if you're lucky, or the cut if not. Solids ... not nice. But then I suppose "disposable" nappies end up in landfill too.

This is what is bad about many boaters who have them. Of course finding any that admit to it is very hard to do. Why would you throw bin liners full of excrement into rubbish skips with all that that entails when a perfectly good cassette system dispose of it properly. Thats what I cant get my head around.

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10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

We have a country wide sewage system easily accessible that one hit disposes of the whole lot

 

Jen did say :

 

10 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

If I were to get another and if it were for an off grid land building,

 

Some of us do not have the luxury of mains sewage disposal.

When we had the house built  we had to install a 'sewage treatment plant' and pay for a discharge fee to the EA for the 'cleaned water' that went into the Dyke..

 

 

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Edited by Alan de Enfield
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Thanks for the posts..... has anyone who has a compost loo gone for one without a 'stir' facility?  I'm not clear on if these are better/needed etc, as without them the cost of compost toilets drops considerably as the design/build becomes much more basic...

 

I know the argument for compost toilets is long and often divisive, but I like the idea of the simplicity of them and the low odour so trying to find out as much as i can about the 'methods'!

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Just now, mrsmelly said:

Ineresting post. A genuine question, what do you think would be the reason for trying a composting bog again? I honestly see no benefits in having to empty the wee somewhere anyway and still having bin liners with solids in and storing the stuff or doing what many do and bag it and throw it in the rubbish bins. We have a country wide sewage system easily accessible that one hit disposes of the whole lot from a cassette or porta bog system, very quick and easy. Being a very long term liveaboard now I would love to think a composting bog was easier and quicker but I fail to see how??

I'd not try one on a canal boat again and my opinion on them for this application is now similar to yours. Definitely a failed experiment from my point of view. I would consider one for an off grid building as I said. I have seen them in various places like Alpine huts and so on. Not been in charge of running and emptying them, but have been a satisfied customer as it were!  Boats just don't have the space to do the job properly. You need a land site to finish the process.

We certainly don't have a country wide sewage system. Out in the sticks most places use septic tanks. Even the CaRT facilities at my city mooring empty in to a septic tank, not a sewer. As far as boaters are concerned it makes no difference, unless the emptying tanker hasn't been...

 

Jen

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4 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks for the posts..... has anyone who has a compost loo gone for one without a 'stir' facility?  I'm not clear on if these are better/needed etc, as without them the cost of compost toilets drops considerably as the design/build becomes much more basic...

 

I know the argument for compost toilets is long and often divisive, but I like the idea of the simplicity of them and the low odour so trying to find out as much as i can about the 'methods'!

Not sure about the "simplicity"  when you have to separately dispose of both liquids and solids whereas with a cassette or pump out both are disposed of in one operation. Then you have used loo paper to also dispose of separately... 

Not sure either about "low odours" . We once moored along side a boat which had a composting loo and the smell which drifted out of some pipe or another was one of the worst I have ever smelt. It was Ok inside the boat though ? 

 

haggis

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1 hour ago, haggis said:

We once moored along side a boat which had a composting loo and the smell which drifted out of some pipe or another was one of the worst I have ever smelt. It was Ok inside the boat though

If it affecting folks outside of the boat, it is probably a BSS fail (or If not, it should be).

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31 minutes ago, haggis said:

Not sure about the "simplicity"  when you have to separately dispose of both liquids and solids whereas with a cassette or pump out both are disposed of in one operation. Then you have used loo paper to also dispose of separately... 

Not sure either about "low odours" . We once moored along side a boat which had a composting loo and the smell which drifted out of some pipe or another was one of the worst I have ever smelt. It was Ok inside the boat though ? 

 

haggis

if it stinks that much as i understand it they haven't 'got it right' ??   or maybe they dont have a generator to annoy people so rely on this!  :)

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37 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks for the posts..... has anyone who has a compost loo gone for one without a 'stir' facility?  I'm not clear on if these are better/needed etc, as without them the cost of compost toilets drops considerably as the design/build becomes much more basic...

 

I know the argument for compost toilets is long and often divisive, but I like the idea of the simplicity of them and the low odour so trying to find out as much as i can about the 'methods'!

Hi I have been using a composting loo for over 7 years now, I have an allotment so you know where it goes. Firstly though it goes in bin that sits under the seat I add coconut coir to it no stirring required, it then goes into the composting bin outside, whilst there more veg matter leaves etc are added. When full its the compost heap at the allotment, there it has time to rot down and has more veg matter added, the system works and in the boat is smell free, I havent smelt it outside either but thats maybe because the poo is always covered by the coir? My mate built his own toilet and he is growing spuds in his compost bin so for him its a success, mine is shop bought and is a seperate villa, I would not go back to other toilets to much work for me

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1 minute ago, peterboat said:

Hi I have been using a composting loo for over 7 years now, I have an allotment so you know where it goes. Firstly though it goes in bin that sits under the seat I add coconut coir to it no stirring required, it then goes into the composting bin outside, whilst there more veg matter leaves etc are added. When full its the compost heap at the allotment, there it has time to rot down and has more veg matter added, the system works and in the boat is smell free, I havent smelt it outside either but thats maybe because the poo is always covered by the coir? My mate built his own toilet and he is growing spuds in his compost bin so for him its a success, mine is shop bought and is a seperate villa, I would not go back to other toilets to much work for me

Thanks, so the stir ability is not a big issue if you don't have one?

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1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks, so the stir ability is not a big issue if you don't have one?

not for me its not some of the older loos [sunmar] required a stirrer but bothe liquid and solids went into the same place, they were also heated

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49 minutes ago, haggis said:

Not sure about the "simplicity"  when you have to separately dispose of both liquids and solids whereas with a cassette or pump out both are disposed of in one operation. Then you have used loo paper to also dispose of separately... 

Not sure either about "low odours" . We once moored along side a boat which had a composting loo and the smell which drifted out of some pipe or another was one of the worst I have ever smelt. It was Ok inside the boat though ? 

 

haggis

The simplicity is not having to walk several miles to the nearest elsan point which, in Leeds in particular, is often out of order. It's been an ongoing battle from what I can tell. I hope cassette toilet owners in Leeds have plenty of spare cassettes. I can't even think of where the next Elsan point is in the opposite direction from Leeds city centre. I bet it's Shipley, 15 miles in the opposite direction.

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1 minute ago, NB Caelmiri said:

The simplicity is not having to walk several miles to the nearest elsan point which, in Leeds in particular, is often out of order. It's been an ongoing battle from what I can tell. I hope cassette toilet owners in Leeds have plenty of spare cassettes. I can't even think of where the next Elsan point is in the opposite direction from Leeds city centre. I bet it's Shipley, 15 miles in the opposite direction.

Why do you have to walk? Doesnt the boat move? Its great to go boating innitt. How much space do you need to have bins with excrement in to compost down?

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58 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Thanks for the posts..... has anyone who has a compost loo gone for one without a 'stir' facility?  I'm not clear on if these are better/needed etc, as without them the cost of compost toilets drops considerably as the design/build becomes much more basic...

 

I know the argument for compost toilets is long and often divisive, but I like the idea of the simplicity of them and the low odour so trying to find out as much as i can about the 'methods'!

simplicity?

I don't think so, every visit to loo you have to wee in one bottler and poop somewhere else, not always easy after a vindaloo.

so you need to find somewhere to get rid of urine, daily. 

Then you need to double bag anything unpleasant. I have cat litter for emergencies, but you probbly want to try coconut stuff sawdut/shavings etc etc 

Then you need to buy a farm, and start composting which takes 'about  year, of course you need to take daily temperature to be sure it is heating up [composting],  which is essential to kill off E.coli.

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