Jump to content

Can heat trigger the carbon monoxide alarm?


Featured Posts

Went to the boat today and found the carbon monoxide detector twittering away.

Checked everything,no cooker on,engine not running,and no nearby boats running.

Tank vented to the outside and battery box vented into the aft of the cockpit.

It is a very hot day,and the interior of the boat was as hot as the interior of a car that had been standing in the sun.

Is it possible that heat alone could have set the alarm off?

It was definately the carbon monoxide alarm and not the smoke alarm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

By twittering away do you mean full blown alarm mode? Some chirp when battery is knackered.

It's a Honeywell a few months old and gives a double "beep" every five seconds or so.

 

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Is the battery charger on ?

 

My Co alarm went off when the battery had an internal short, the battery charger was trying to force all the extra 'electric worms' into it and it was getting so hot it would have exploded within another few minutes.

No battery charger,however there is a small (10 watt) solar panel fitted with no controller and wired direct to the battery.

I have been told that being only 10 watt a controller wasn't necessary.

I did check the battery and it's voltage and with the solar panel connected I got a reading of 16.4 volts,and disconnecting the solar panel from the battery got a reading (after about an hour) of 13.6 volts.

Although the battery was cool to touch,it's possible I suppose that it may have been releasing gas.

Thank you both for you replies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Is it an XC70 and XC100 or an XC100D  ?

Think it's an XC 70

 

9 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That's more than a 'little' high - any idea what current was flowing at that voltage.

 

More than an hour or two at 16.4 volts will do some serious damage, particularly if they are 'sealed' batteries

Oh dear,it'been charging at this rate for weeks! Don't know what current was flowing in.There's only one battery and it has screw caps,so I think it is not the sealed type.

After a few minutes thought I went back to the boat (I only live ten minutes from my mooring) and disconnected the battery.The battery felt cool but after a couple of minutes with my head in the battery box to disconnect the terminals,I noticed that although I couldn't smell anthing,my nostrils were stinging a bit.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

After a few minutes thought I went back to the boat (I only live ten minutes from my mooring) and disconnected the battery.The battery felt cool but after a couple of minutes with my head in the battery box to disconnect the terminals,I noticed that although I couldn't smell anthing,my nostrils were stinging a bit.

 

So you can't smell Hydrogen Sulphide gas (very very distinct rotten egg / stinkbomb smell) but there's enough of it around to let you feel it in your nose and it's tripped your CO detector? You'd probably better get a test for Covid-19!

 

If you usually have a sense of smell and it has suddenly stopped working, that's now an "isolate and ask for a test" symptom ...

 

Don't breathe too much more in as it turns into Sulphuric Acid in your nostrils/lungs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

I noticed that although I couldn't smell anthing,my nostrils were stinging a bit.

That's exactly what happened to me.

 

Middle of the night the Co alarm started going off, nothing was switched on, all gas appliances turned off so we just opened the hatches and wafted the air around until it stopped.

Back to sleep and an hour later it went off again - hunted round and could find no source of Co.

Went into the engine room - no smell - but something was 'catching' the back of my throat, one battery (out of 6) was very very very hot, couldn't even touch the terminals, managed to get a spanner on and disconnected the + terminal before the spanner burnt my hand.

 

I was later told it was within minutes of exploding (yes, actually exploding).

 

I'd suggest that to keep charging at 16.4 volts you have a problem of some sort.

Edited by Alan de Enfield
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

 

I did check the battery and it's voltage and with the solar panel connected I got a reading of 16.4 volts,and disconnecting the solar panel from the battery got a reading (after about an hour) of 13.6 volts.

Although the battery was cool to touch,it's possible I suppose that it may have been releasing gas.

Thank you both for you replies.

16.4 volts its gassing and a CO detector will pick that up.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

16.4 volts its gassing and a CO detector will pick that up.

Thank you all.

Today in W Yorks it has been a blistering hot day wth no cloud and sun all day.Even so,16.4 volts charging does seem high,when with the engine running it charges at 13.something volts.

Perhaps even a 10W solar panel needs a controller despite the advice I was given that a 10W panel will only trickle charge enough to counter the normal discharge when stood.

I will check the battery voltage tomorrow,and if it has dropped to the low 12s or 11s,then I know that my battery has had it.I will now leave the solar panel disconnected untill I get some advice from a proper boat sparky.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

So you can't smell Hydrogen Sulphide gas (very very distinct rotten egg / stinkbomb smell) but there's enough of it around to let you feel it in your nose and it's tripped your CO detector? You'd probably better get a test for Covid-19!

 

If you usually have a sense of smell and it has suddenly stopped working, that's now an "isolate and ask for a test" symptom ...

 

Don't breathe too much more in as it turns into Sulphuric Acid in your nostrils/lungs.

 

I used to work for the company that made the stenching agent for natural gas, which contained hydrogen sulphide, and if you breathe in higher concentrations such as can form in a closed environment, then the hydrogen sulphide desensitises your olfactory nerves and at high concentration the deadening of the sense of smell is instantaneous so you  do not smell it. For that reason personal gas detectors were worn as we could not rely on smelling a leak.

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PeterF said:

I used to work for the company that made the stenching agent for natural gas, which contained hydrogen sulphide, and if you breathe in higher concentrations such as can form in a closed environment, then the hydrogen sulphide desensitises your olfactory nerves and at high concentration the deadening of the sense of smell is instantaneous so you  do not smell it. For that reason personal gas detectors were worn as we could not rely on smelling a leak.

 

I didn't know that - thanks Peter.

 

I did once learn the hard way that a strong whiff of Hydrogen Chloride isn't much fun either!

 

@Mad Harold you might be OK if you have stopped breathing it in :) 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

So you can't smell Hydrogen Sulphide gas (very very distinct rotten egg / stinkbomb smell) but there's enough of it around to let you feel it in your nose and it's tripped your CO detector? You'd probably better get a test for Covid-19!

 

If you usually have a sense of smell and it has suddenly stopped working, that's now an "isolate and ask for a test" symptom ...

 

Don't breathe too much more in as it turns into Sulphuric Acid in your nostrils/lungs.

 

Thanks for your advice,you had me worried.

When I got back home,I splashed some Old Mice aftershave on,and I am relieved to report that I can smell it with a vengence!

  • Happy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

I did once learn the hard way that a strong whiff of Hydrogen Chloride isn't much fun either!

I opened a jar and stuck my nose in to give it a good sniff to find out what was in it... after my eyes stopped streaming I labelled the jar clearly - AMMONIA

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I opened a jar and stuck my nose in to give it a good sniff to find out what was in it... after my eyes stopped streaming I labelled the jar clearly - AMMONIA

 

Only really dedicated gluesniffers use Copydex ...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Mad Harold said:

Thank you all.

Today in W Yorks it has been a blistering hot day wth no cloud and sun all day.Even so,16.4 volts charging does seem high,when with the engine running it charges at 13.something volts.

Perhaps even a 10W solar panel needs a controller despite the advice I was given that a 10W panel will only trickle charge enough to counter the normal discharge when stood.

I will check the battery voltage tomorrow,and if it has dropped to the low 12s or 11s,then I know that my battery has had it.I will now leave the solar panel disconnected untill I get some advice from a proper boat sparky.

When you have fully charged your batteries with the engine that panel will continue charging it a bit more

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PeterF said:

I used to work for the company that made the stenching agent for natural gas, which contained hydrogen sulphide, and if you breathe in higher concentrations such as can form in a closed environment, then the hydrogen sulphide desensitises your olfactory nerves and at high concentration the deadening of the sense of smell is instantaneous so you  do not smell it. For that reason personal gas detectors were worn as we could not rely on smelling a leak.

We use to smell it when it drifted over the road when they lost a bit while trying to inject it.
H2S was a big danger when drilling as it tended to be a lot shallower than the natural gas so you could hit it unexpectedly, That was the only time I shaved my beard off. You could also get it in Natural Gas and when we opened pipes and vessels we had to test for it before inspections. 

Note after 100ppm you dont smell it any more https://www.osha.gov/SLTC/hydrogensulfide/hazards.html

  • Greenie 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have also worked on ammonia production plants, emergency evacuation respirators were located in strategic positions around the plants in case of leaks from the process. Nobody on the plant was allowed to wear a beard in case you needed to use an emergency evacuation mask, contact lenses were similarly proscribed as any ammonia in the air could dissolve into the moisture on your eyeballs and with contacts emergency eye baths would not flush it out. Every so often we would go for respirator training and we would be put into a wooden shed after putting our masks on and then someone would inject a bit of ammonia into the shed, you soon knew if you had not got your mask on.

Edited by PeterF
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, PeterF said:

I have also worked on ammonia production plants, emergency evacuation respirators were located in strategic positions around the plants in case of leaks from the process. Nobody on the plant was allowed to wear a beard in case you needed to use an emergency evacuation mask, contact lenses were similarly proscribed as any ammonia in the air could dissolve into the moisture on your eyeballs and with contacts emergency eye baths would not flush it out. Every so often we would go for respirator training and we would be put into a wooden shed with masks on and then someone would inject a bit of ammonia into the shed, you soon knew if you had not got your mask on.

A have also worked with ammonia refrigeration but that was 50 years ago, well before I had a beard also that companies H&S was not so hot

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

16.4 volts its gassing and a CO detector will pick that up.

A smoke alarm AND a carbon monoxide detector I am now convinced are essential equipment on a boat.

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Mad Harold said:

A smoke alarm AND a carbon monoxide detector I am now convinced are essential equipment on a boat.

I think the majority have known it for some time - its just the  "its an infringement of my civil liberty" brigade that have fought the inclusion of the Co alarm into the BSS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I think the majority have known it for some time - its just the  "its an infringement of my civil liberty" brigade that have fought the inclusion of the Co alarm into the BSS.

 

Most of us who objected have had and used CO detectors for years and encouraged other boaters to fit them.  It was the extension to the remit of the BSS that we objected to, not the Carbon Monoxide alarm itself.

 

Either an awareness campaign or a strong advisory on having a CO alarm would have been fine, but that isn't the route they took.  It'll be mandatory lifejackets next ...

  • Greenie 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Most of us who objected have had and used CO detectors for years and encouraged other boaters to fit them.  It was the extension to the remit of the BSS that we objected to, not the Carbon Monoxide alarm itself.

 

Either an awareness campaign or a strong advisory on having a CO alarm would have been fine, but that isn't the route they took.  It'll be mandatory lifejackets next ...

I understand that several boats are still failing for not having CO alarms

Edited by ditchcrawler
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I understand that several boats are still failing for not having CO alarms

Which, I guess, proves the need for it to be mandatory. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.