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Hello all, a couple of questions please.


Alex2020

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Hello all, 

 

After wanting one for years we are finally looking to buy our first boat, purely for leisure purposes at the moment.  We have hired boats for summer holidays quite a few times.

 

my questions are please.

 

1. Is it better to buy private sale, or through a broker? I was thinking about more chance of a comeback if any problem if bought through a broker. 

 

2.  Is it possible to change a boat where the bow just has a large window to having doors.  We’ve seen a boat we like but not too keen on no/limited access at the front of the boat.

 

Thank you. 

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2 minutes ago, Alex2020 said:

Hello all, 

 

After wanting one for years we are finally looking to buy our first boat, purely for leisure purposes at the moment.  We have hired boats for summer holidays quite a few times.

 

my questions are please.

 

1. Is it better to buy private sale, or through a broker? I was thinking about more chance of a comeback if any problem if bought through a broker. 

 

2.  Is it possible to change a boat where the bow just has a large window to having doors.  We’ve seen a boat we like but not too keen on no/limited access at the front of the boat.

 

Thank you. 

 

1) You have no more 'security' buying from a broker than you do buying privately. The broker is simply a 'go-between' and is not even legally required to tell you of any faults on the boat.

 

2) These are often boats made by "Durham Boats" and are ex-hire boats. The bed is normally below the front window so just check what is below the window if you intend to change it. There is also rarely any 'well-deck' in the bow. But, in principle (at a cost) yes you can do it, but it may be more economic to find a boat that actually meets what you want.

 

If you post a link to any boats, explain what you are looking to do, and where you plan to do it you will get some constructive (and maybe some less constructive) comments which may help you.

 

For example canal /lock dimensions vary greatly between (say) London, the Midlands and Yorkshire

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11 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

1) You have no more 'security' buying from a broker than you do buying privately. The broker is simply a 'go-between' and is not even legally required to tell you of any faults on the boat.

 

2) These are often boats made by "Durham Boats" and are ex-hire boats. The bed is normally below the front window so just check what is below the window if you intend to change it. There is also rarely any 'well-deck' in the bow. But, in principle (at a cost) yes you can do it, but it may be more economic to find a boat that actually meets what you want.

 

If you post a link to any boats, explain what you are looking to do, and where you plan to do it you will get some constructive (and maybe some less constructive) comments which may help you.

 

For example canal /lock dimensions vary greatly between (say) London, the Midlands and Yorkshire


Thanks A lot for your responses.  We are looking to be based South Derbyshire way as able to get on to different canals.  I have family near Banbury so wanted to be able to head down that way pretty easily. 

That’s interesting about brokers thanks.  Would it be the same if buying directly from a marina? Would they have a duty of care? 
 

cheers

 

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31 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

 

 

2) These are often boats made by "Durham Boats" and are ex-hire boats. The bed is normally below the front window so just check what is below the window if you intend to change it. There is also rarely any 'well-deck' in the bow. 

 

 

I don't think so. South West Durham Steelcraft's 45- and 55-footers do indeed have no front door, but they don't have a front window either - the bulkhead is solid. They do, however, have side doors in the front bedroom, whether on one side or both I am not sure.

Some boats with no well-decks, such as a lot of Springers, have a large front window which opens by hinging outwards - good for escape in an emergency but not very convenient for getting in! See picture below of one which I used to have.

The second picture shows the SW Durham front-end configuration, note doors just aft of first window.

 

P1000040.JPG

SW Durham.jpg

Edited by Athy
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3 minutes ago, Alex2020 said:

That’s interesting about brokers thanks.  Would it be the same if buying directly from a marina? Would they have a duty of care? 

 

Nope. The only time a non-private seller has any legal responsibilities is when they actually own the boat (ie they have maybe taken it in part exchange)

 

You will probably see in the small print something to the effect that "the seller is not selling in the course of a business" remember that the marina / broker is NOT the seller.

 

If the seller (owner) is the Broker or marina then the full force of the law (fit for purpose, as described, guarantee etc) are all applied.

 

Presumably you will be employing a surveyor who will act on your behalf and (hopefully) find any faults.

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58 minutes ago, Alex2020 said:

 

1. Is it better to buy private sale, or through a broker? I was thinking about more chance of a comeback if any problem if bought through a broker. 

 

 

There is a different way to answer that. Think about the seller.

We are selling (under offer) our boat to buy an new one. We are doing it through a broker as it is far easier for us and far  less faff. ......plus I think a lot less stress. They organise things like surveys etc and handle the transfer of money/ownership. Many peeps in our position do the same .....SO A LOT OF THE GOOD BOATS ARE BEING SOLD THROUGH BROKERS.  If you decide only to buy privately then you are seriously limiting yourselves. The brokers I have dealt with when buying this one, and now selling it are professional and are pricing it right for the market and if there was anything major wrong (that was obvious) they wouldnt sell it. They are not like 2nd hand car salesman (the good brokers).

Be aware that the market is moving fast now and is certainly a sellers market. 2 of  the 3 boats for sale in our marina were sold yesterday, and 3 boats sold yesterday in the brokers other main marina. Dont hang about when you see the boat you want.

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

How many sleeps until new boat o'clock?  

 

Bearing in mind the typical age range of narrowboat owners, I'd reckon two per day on average.

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6 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

How many sleeps until new boat o'clock?  Or are you both too excited to sleep now? :D

 

 

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Bearing in mind the typical age range of narrowboat owners, I'd reckon two per day on average.

On the Athy way of counting, I reckon about 40-50, so that's about 3rd week june ish. We see photos of the build process every week and they look around 2 weeks away plus another week to truck it over here. Yes, getting excited. I can fit my lithiums again!!!!!!!! Poland doesnt seem to have been hit too hard with the virus so they have only slipped 3 weeks in the build......we originally thought it would be here before the Crick show.....so not too bad.

 

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Personally, if I were you, ................ look at your first boat as something you can sell on if you find another pot of cash

I just would never ever buy a boat like that, and I suspect I am not alone.

Any money you sink in to a boat, is just that, n case you are not sure!

Enjoy your boating as an affordable hobby, and if it becomes an addiction ........ well plenty on here will understand.

Edited by LadyG
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18 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Personally, if I were you, ................ look at your first boat as something you can sell on if you find another pot of cash

I just would never ever buy a boat like that, and I suspect I am not alone.

Any money you sink in to a boat, is just that, n case you are not sure!

Enjoy your boating as an affordable hobby, and if it becomes an addiction ........ well plenty on here will understand.

I guess it depends what you are used too. None of the boats we have owned or hired have had access from the cabin interior to the bow (other than emergency access hatches), so I really don't think that arrangement would unduly put us off.

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2 hours ago, Alex2020 said:

Hello all, 

 

After wanting one for years we are finally looking to buy our first boat, purely for leisure purposes at the moment.  We have hired boats for summer holidays quite a few times.

 

my questions are please.

 

1. Is it better to buy private sale, or through a broker? I was thinking about more chance of a comeback if any problem if bought through a broker. 

 

2.  Is it possible to change a boat where the bow just has a large window to having doors.  We’ve seen a boat we like but not too keen on no/limited access at the front of the boat.

 

Thank you. 

Having proper access at the front of the boat would be something I would consider pretty essential, or rather on a lengthy narrowboat I would.

 

It saves having to negotiate the gunwales to get to the bow or alternatively squeeze through a hatch.

 

The advantage of the front side hatch arrangement however is that often allows for a nice double bed configuration running length ways along the boat with access to both sides of the bed towards the rear.

 

It depends on what you consider important but for me a boat that only allows the minimum required for safety reasons, eg a window that opens wouldnt be for me.

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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Having proper access at the front of the boat would be something I would consider pretty essential, or rather on a lengthy narrowboat I would.

 

It saves having to negotiate the gunwales to get to the bow or alternatively squeeze through a hatch.

 

The advantage of the front side hatch arrangement however is that often allows for a nice double bed configuration running length ways along the boat with access to both sides of the bed towards the rear.

 

It depends on what you consider important but for me a boat that only allows the minimum required for safety reasons, eg a window that opens wouldnt be for me.

Also you may find it difficult opening those side doors in a lock if the need arose 

3 hours ago, Athy said:

I don't think so. South West Durham Steelcraft's 45- and 55-footers do indeed have no front door, but they don't have a front window either - the bulkhead is solid. They do, however, have side doors in the front bedroom, whether on one side or both I am not sure.

Some boats with no well-decks, such as a lot of Springers, have a large front window which opens by hinging outwards - good for escape in an emergency but not very convenient for getting in! See picture below of one which I used to have.

The second picture shows the SW Durham front-end configuration, note doors just aft of first window.

 

 

SW Durham.jpg

I think some of these have a well deck but no door.

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

Also you may find it difficult opening those side doors in a lock if the need arose 

Thats a good point. And one of the times you might want to exit in a hurry from the front is if the boat is sinking in a lock. Not really much use in an energency.

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1 minute ago, The Happy Nomad said:

Thats a good point. And one of the times you might want to exit in a hurry from the front is if the boat is sinking in a lock. Not really much use in an energency.

 

Why would you be on it inside and not working the lock?

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2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Why would you be on it inside and not working the lock?

Doesnt that rather depend on how many people are on the boat?

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5 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

There is a different way to answer that. Think about the seller.

 

I was not suggesting that the OP should ignore brokers / marinas, she will need to buy from where ever THE boat is.

 

I was simply answering the question regarding extra safety / comeback when buying from a broker

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

Also you may find it difficult opening those side doors in a lock if the need arose 

I think some of these have a well deck but no door.

Yep they do, flippin awesome boats, about the only thing I'd consider upgrading to (fantastic layout and steel quality)

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17 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

I guess it depends what you are used too. None of the boats we have owned or hired have had access from the cabin interior to the bow (other than emergency access hatches), so I really don't think that arrangement would unduly put us off.

 

I'd actually prefer a boat without an enclosed bow without bow doors or a well deck. Bow well decks are just leaf and dirt traps unless you have one of those horrible cratch covers. Most Dutch barges and Dutch-style barges are built without bow doors/well decks. As long as there's an escape hatch in the bow that's all I'd want. The modern narrowboat and widebeam style bows with well decks and bow doors are much less seaworthy. People have to cover them over for tidal crossings and I taped the lower half of my bow doors and door vents up with duck tape for the Bristol Channel crossing. What does that tell you? Not really fit for purpose unless you're just on canals and non-tidal rivers. Even then some have been flooded through bow doors going uphill in locks when people didn't know what they were doing, but it wouldn't happen with an enclosed bow.

Edited by blackrose
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Thanks for all your responses, they have been very interesting.  I think I was maybe confusing a marina offering brokerage services as that the marina would be responsible for checking boat worthiness etc and as if the marina was the seller. 
 

We are still in two minds about the front of the boat access.  I guess there are pluses and minuses on either way.  To be honest, because we are a bit nervous in locks we have always made sure no one is inside the boat when in a lock, just in case! 
 

I’m sure I will be back again asking Further questions.

 

As I’m not a seasoned boater we will definitely have a survey done prior to purchase.  
 

Another thing that has come to mind is, would any outstanding finance on a boat be passed on to the next owner (I.e me)?  
 

thanks again 

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2 minutes ago, Alex2020 said:

Thanks for all your responses, they have been very interesting.  I think I was maybe confusing a marina offering brokerage services as that the marina would be responsible for checking boat worthiness etc and as if the marina was the seller. 
 

We are still in two minds about the front of the boat access.  I guess there are pluses and minuses on either way.  To be honest, because we are a bit nervous in locks we have always made sure no one is inside the boat when in a lock, just in case! 
 

I’m sure I will be back again asking Further questions.

 

As I’m not a seasoned boater we will definitely have a survey done prior to purchase.  
 

Another thing that has come to mind is, would any outstanding finance on a boat be passed on to the next owner (I.e me)?  
 

thanks again 

 

If it is without you knowledge when buying it would be fraud on the part of the seller but you would have little chance of pursuing it. The broker should have taken some steps to minimise that risk but there is not a lot you can do about a determined fraudster. There are no central registers for boats and there is noting like the HPI checks for cars. Having said that one hears of virtually zero cases of such frauds - plenty of other frauds involving on-line adds etc though.

 

It is always a good idea to see the sellers records, receipts etc. for the time they have owned the boat to minimise the risk its a stolen boat. bets to try to get a record of the seller's name and address.

 

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