Portable Generator Options

[The Gravy Boater]

 

My current alternator is inadequate for my battery bank and I have no solar yet, both issues that I intend to address as soon as possible but - as a new CC - I've decided that I need a portable generator to bridge the gap until this is done. It will also be useful as a long term backup.

 

So I'm looking for some opinions on:

 

1) Which is the best overall type and model.
2) LPG vs. Petrol.
3) Fuel & Generator storage tips
4) Which is the quietest
5) Best value for money
6) Anything else that I need to bear in mind

 

I'll be cruising a lot so the current alternator will do some of the work, but I'll also need to use the generator to keep my batteries healthy and for when I need mains electric.

[Alan de Enfield]

What size is your battery bank ?

What size is your battery charger ?

What is your budget ?

[mrsmelly]

Honda, end of. 

[The Gravy Boater]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

Honda, end of. 

The only other brand I've heard mentioned favourably - so far - has been Clarke.

[system 4-50]

20 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

6) Anything else that I need to bear in mind

They stink while running.

[The Gravy Boater]

14 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

What size is your battery bank ?

What size is your battery charger ?

What is your budget ?

There are currently 3x110ah LA Domestics, 1x110ah LA Starter and 1x110ah LA bow thruster batteries.

The Invertor/Charger has 70 amp output.

Budget... let's say up to £500 but if I can get something perfectly serviceable for my needs for less, then I would do this.  It is not intended as a long term solution to my power needs.

[Alan de Enfield]

The ideal generator would be the Honda EU2000i but costs something over £1000, you may pick one up 2nd hand but they hold the price very well and could be £700 2nd hand.

 

A Kipor 2000 is very similar performance wise but a tad noisier. Cost ~£500

 

I have a Kipor and am very happy with it.

 

https://www.sailandtrail.co.uk/kipor-ig2000-suitcase-inverter-generator.html

[Sea Dog]

34 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

There are currently 3x110ah LA Domestics, 1x110ah LA Starter and 1x110ah LA bow thruster batteries.

The Invertor/Charger has 70 amp output.

Budget... let's say up to £500 but if I can get something perfectly serviceable for my needs for less, then I would do this.  It is not intended as a long term solution to my power needs.

What you haven't posted here is details of your engine and alternator set up.  Is your primary charging method not coping with your batteries because it is badly spec'd, incorrectly installed or defective, because my first port of call would probably be getting that fettled.  I'd expect that to fall within your £500 budget.

[The Gravy Boater]

14 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

What you haven't posted here is details of your engine and alternator set up.  Is your primary charging method not coping with your batteries because it is badly spec'd, incorrectly installed or defective, because my first port of call would probably be getting that fettled.  I'd expect that to fall within your £500 budget.

The engine is a Vetus M4.15 and the alternator is 50 amp.  I'm looking into getting whatever I can out of alternators but the advice I've had so far is that it's unlikely to be spectacular out of this 33 hp engine and probably expensive, being Vetus.  I have something of an annoying roof configuration for solar and the need to walk on the roof as a solo CCer also rules out some kits, but I'm hoping to get at least 6-800w up there.  My overall budget for electronics is of course much higher than £500.

[TheBiscuits]

1 hour ago, The Gravy Boater said:

My current alternator is inadequate for my battery bank and I have no solar yet, both issues that I intend to address as soon as possible but - as a new CC - I've decided that I need a portable generator to bridge the gap until this is done

 

I'd say get your solar on ASAP.  There's not much point burning fuel to charge batteries at peak solar season if you don't need to.

 

Do you know how many amp hours you are using each day and therefore how many you need to replace?  Are you sure your batteries are OK and you are not trying to charge knackered batteries?

 

I know it doesn't help with the genny question, but every hour of this sunshine could be going into your batteries ...

[sueb]

Are you sure you need a generator? If you are cruising a lot you may not need one. We CCd for 25 years with no solar power and had no need for a generator. We found them to be noisy things that can only be used between 8am - 8pm

[Guest]

Certainly no expert, but having a (nominal) 330ah battery bank, wouldn't it only be working flat out for a fairly short period of time? 

My bank is (or was) 300ah, but more likely 270ish now. Discharging the batteries 50% and running the engine with my 70a alternator, the charging current quickly drops to 50a and below so not sure an alternator upgrade would benefit you much. Do you have any way of measuring the charge current to show how long it spends putting in 50a?

[RufusR]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Honda, end of. 

Agreed and only one a victron inverter charger won’t spit out . Expensive yes but they run forever and give a faultless next wave output. 

 

Reason on why it’s probably the most popular gen on the cut . 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by RufusR

[The Gravy Boater]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'd say get your solar on ASAP.  There's not much point burning fuel to charge batteries at peak solar season if you don't need to.

 

Do you know how many amp hours you are using each day and therefore how many you need to replace?  Are you sure your batteries are OK and you are not trying to charge knackered batteries?

 

I know it doesn't help with the genny question, but every hour of this sunshine could be going into your batteries ...

No worries, I appreciate all the suggestions.  I'm still researching where to get my solar done and not having much luck so far, so I should probably do another thread about that.  As far as power use goes I work online and ideally want to use a (relatively) low power desktop computer I rebuilt for this purpose.  I could have just got a high spec laptop but it was cheaper to do the rebuild... something that I am potentially beginning to regret.  It's not on the boat at the moment so I have no way of doing a proper power audit but when it is really the most the boat will ever need is the computer, a monitor, a router, the 12v fridge and a few LED lights.  The current invertor/charger is a Stirling 2.1kw which I imagine will need to be changed. I would only really use the computer for work and just use mobile devices at night.

[RufusR]

13 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

No worries, I appreciate all the suggestions.  I'm still researching where to get my solar done and not having much luck so far, so I should probably do another thread about that.  As far as power use goes I work online and ideally want to use a (relatively) low power desktop computer I rebuilt for this purpose.  I could have just got a high spec laptop but it was cheaper to do the rebuild... something that I am potentially beginning to regret.  It's not on the boat at the moment so I have no way of doing a proper power audit but when it is really the most the boat will ever need is the computer, a monitor, a router, the 12v fridge and a few LED lights.  The current invertor/charger is a Stirling 2.1kw which I imagine will need to be changed. I would only really use the computer for work and just use mobile devices at night.

Yes solar all the way first and gen as a back up for winter . For solar don’t get an “ installer “ they charge loads and you get poor system that suits their profit imo . After loads and loads of research into my new up coming system I have come to conclusion most don’t know what they are taking about or do but steer you towards the solution that suits them not you . Cheap china is not always the best . Look at Bimble they I am sure can sell you a complete kit for your needs at a very reasonable price then either fit yourself , semi fit your self ( what i am doing ) or get a decent boat engineer to do it or parts of it . Cheaper and you will end up with a much better system. Fun designing and fitting too . 

 

Regard geny I only have a Honda eu 2200 because the missus insists on ironing everything. If not a eu1000i is just as good but smaller and cheaper and will charge most batteries as a back up to solar no issue . 

 

 Btw I work from the boat and a lot more during lockdown . If you are cc on the cut computers are power hogs to use all working day , suggest low power laptop dialled all the down to snail performance unless you are gonna run engines / gen a lot esp if you have fridge as well . 800 watts of solar will do for 8 months but I winter you will need to have back up and be a misser unless you are moving all the time 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by RufusR

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, RufusR said:

 a eu1000i is just as good but smaller and cheaper and will charge most batteries as a back up to solar no issue . 

 OP needs at least a 2000 VA genny unless he can reduce the charger power - some let you do this some don't, but a 1000i won't run a 70A charger into flat batteries.

 

I know @Alan de Enfield spotted this because of the generators he suggested, but I don't know if @The Gravy Boater picked upon it.

[RufusR]

3 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 OP needs at least a 2000 VA genny unless he can reduce the charger power - some let you do this some don't, but a 1000i won't run a 70A charger into flat batteries.

 

I know @Alan de Enfield spotted this because of the generators he suggested, but I don't know if @The Gravy Boater picked upon it.

Ah I missed that . Thanks . 

[RufusR]

Friend of mine is talking about Hyundai gens , apparently have pure sine wave as good as honda but half the price , maybe worth a look if on a budget but I have no idea experience of them . Only know Hondas work end of . 

 

Others may work but depends on your charger / inverter and how fussy it is .

Edited May 26, 2020 by RufusR

[RufusR]

3 minutes ago, RufusR said:

Friend of mine is talking about Hyundai gens , apparently have pure sine wave as good as honda but half the price , maybe worth a look if on a budget but I have no idea experience of them . Only know Hondas work end of . 

 

Others may work but depends on your charger / inverter and how fussy it is .

By the way run my Honda on LPG loads cheaper to run and less stress storing fuel 

[The Gravy Boater]

22 minutes ago, RufusR said:

Yes solar all the way first and gen as a back up for winter . For solar don’t get an “ installer “ they charge loads and you get poor system that suits their profit imo . After loads and loads of research into my new up coming system I have come to conclusion most don’t know what they are taking about or do but steer you towards the solution that suits them not you . Cheap china is not always the best . Look at Bimble they I am sure can sell you a complete kit for your needs at a very reasonable price then either fit yourself , semi fit your self ( what i am doing ) or get a decent boat engineer to do it or parts of it . Cheaper and you will end up with a much better system. Fun designing and fitting too . 

 

Regard geny I only have a Honda eu 2200 because the missus insists on ironing everything. If not a eu1000i is just as good but smaller and cheaper and will charge most batteries as a back up to solar no issue . 

 

 Btw I work from the boat and a lot more during lockdown . If you are cc on the cut computers are power hogs to use all working day , suggest low power laptop dialled all the down to snail performance unless you are gonna run engines / gen a lot esp if you have fridge as well . 800 watts of solar will do for 8 months but I winter you will need to have back up and be a misser unless you are moving all the time 

 

Great post fella.  I'm under a certain amount of pressure to get my boat half way across England to be nearer family so I do need to get going as soon as the navigation allows. I wouldn't be confident doing my own solar install at all I'm afraid.  I know it's (relatively) simple but I'm too busy to research it thoroughly and want the peace of mind of getting a proper marine electrician to do it.  I've been advised to avoid all the asian stuff and buy German, plus I have the requirement of needing to walk on the roof... so the mounting system must allow for this while maximising the panel size.  I'm not sold on flexible panels... the fully tiltable mounts sold by Midsummer Energy looked ideal but they are out of stock.  My chimney position and side rails also kind of preclude certain kits and I'd also probably need to have my barge pole racks ground off.

Edited May 26, 2020 by The Gravy Boater
typos

[RufusR]

15 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

Great post fella.  I'm under a certain amount of pressure to get my boat half way across England to be nearer family so I do need to get going as soon as the navigation allows. I wouldn't be confident doing my own solar install at all I'm afraid.  I know it's (relatively) simple but I'm too busy to research it thoroughly and want the peace of mind of getting a proper marine electrician to do it.  I've been advised to avoid all the asian stuff and buy German, plus I have the requirement of needing to walk on the roof... so the mounting system must allow for this while maximising the panel size.  I'm not sold on flexible panels... the fully tiltable mounts sold by Midsummer Energy looked idea but they are out of stock.  My chimney position and side rails also kind of preclude certain kits and I'd also probably need to have my barge pole racks ground off.

1. No problem you buy it . Marine engineer will install it . Job done . 

2. No such thing as German made panels anymore all made in

china or offer Far East countries , marketing con . “ German solar cells or German designed panels ain’t made there and when you look closely they they have poor efficiency and cost many times more and I tests perform poorly .

3. You need to find some time to research if you can if you don’t want to pay over the top for poor solution and don’t want to be disappointed. 

4 .if you need high power compact look at Perlight delta black pgm270 panels , I am getting these , good panels , Chinese yes but they have been i business 30 years not 2 mins like some . They kick out a lot of power in a compact package are a 1480 x 998 I am mounting 6 of these across the boat for 1620 watts . You can go slimmer say 668 but would prob mean smaller panels power wise say 175 watts which is fine but you will need more and ironically the smaller you go power wise the more they cost . But Lots of options 

Edited May 26, 2020 by RufusR

[The Gravy Boater]

2 minutes ago, RufusR said:

1. No problem you buy it . Marine engineer will install it . Job done . 

2. No such thing as German made panels anymore all made in

china or offer Far East countries , marketing con . “ German solar cells or German designed panels ain’t made there and when you look closely they they have poor efficiency and cost many times more and I tests perform poorly .

3. You need to find some time to research if you can if you don’t want to pay over the top for poor solution and don’t want to be disappointed. 

4 .if you need high power compact look at Perlight delta black pgm270 panels , I am getting these , good panels , Chinese yes but they have been i business 30 years not 2 mins like some . They kick out a lot of power in a compact package are a 1480 x 998. You can go slimmer say 668 but would prob mean smaller panels power wise say 175 watts which is fine but you will need more and ironically the smaller you go power wise the more they cost . But Lots of options 

Thanks.  Ideally I just wanted to have three large solar panels on the Midsummer mounts at the back of the boat, but it's not going to happen as the available space is hampered by the side rails (there is about 105cm of useful space between them). Going along the boat it's two meters to the chimney, then about 1.4 meters to where it would start to get in the way of the center line. I wanted to use the front of the boat for storage boxes but maybe I just need to put one of the three panels at the front.

[mrsmelly]

52 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

No worries, I appreciate all the suggestions.  I'm still researching where to get my solar done and not having much luck so far, so I should probably do another thread about that.  As far as power use goes I work online and ideally want to use a (relatively) low power desktop computer I rebuilt for this purpose.  I could have just got a high spec laptop but it was cheaper to do the rebuild... something that I am potentially beginning to regret.  It's not on the boat at the moment so I have no way of doing a proper power audit but when it is really the most the boat will ever need is the computer, a monitor, a router, the 12v fridge and a few LED lights.  The current invertor/charger is a Stirling 2.1kw which I imagine will need to be changed. I would only really use the computer for work and just use mobile devices at night.

If you buy a decent second hand honda gennie for the moment to get you by until you update solar etc you will get all or most of your money back on it when you sell it anyway.

[RufusR]

If you want 800 watts form 3 panels the Perlight are good also I have seen some Panasonic super slim ht’s I think they were at 295 watts each , Great panels if you need slim think about 650mm wide but longish and a bit pricey . Look at a frame swivel mounts they will do the trick for you . Midsummer mounts look immensely complicated , similar is Better 

[The Gravy Boater]

3 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

If you buy a decent second hand honda gennie for the moment to get you by until you update solar etc you will get all or most of your money back on it when you sell it anyway.

That was kind of my original thought.  It's either that and/or I just try and marina hop until things are sorted.  I have a car so it would probably solve a lot of grief finding parking.