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Does anyone know if the  Railways and Transport Safety Act has been enabled for private boaters . The Swindon Advertiser thinks so and someone has been charged with it.   https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/18474150.jail-threat-woman-crashed-canal-boat-bit-policeman/

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7 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Does anyone know if the  Railways and Transport Safety Act has been enabled for private boaters . The Swindon Advertiser thinks so and someone has been charged with it.   https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/18474150.jail-threat-woman-crashed-canal-boat-bit-policeman/

 

It would appear so, but I have previously had this 'discussion' to be told that it has not yet passed thru parliament and been enabled.

 

The .Gov website seems to think it has. and it was updated revisions in 2006

 

 

 

 

Screenshot (180).png

Screenshot (181).png

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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It does read that it was enacted in 2004 which I know it wasn't

There is still a caveat on the legislation

 

Section 80 also provides a power to except, by regulations, non-professional mariners who do not pose substantial safety risks from the prescribed limits and the requirement to provide specimens.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/notes/division/4/6/2/3

 

Needs more investigation, its the least of that woman's worries anyway

 

This

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/section/80#section-80-4

Says that sec of state can exempt locations which was done I believe in 2003/4

Need to find if the exemption has been removed

 

Edited by Loddon
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To be fair to the local paper, they do give more priority to this woman biting a policemen and possessing cocaine than to her state of sobriety. Those two offences alone would, I should imagine, be sufficient have her put away for a while.

Edited by Athy
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From Police Scotland's SOP:

https://www.scotland.police.uk/assets/pdf/151934/184779/drink-drug-railways-marine-and-aviation-sop

3.3 Non-Professional / Recreational Mariners

   3.3.1 The provisions do not yet apply to non-professional or recreational mariners, as Section 80 of the Act has not yet been enacted.

 

Commencement notes on the act :

 

S. 80(4)(5) in force at 30.3.2004 by S.I. 2004/827art. 3(c)

 

So as I understand it section 80 (1) (2) and (3) have not commenced.

 

I think that charge will get quietly dropped ...

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27 minutes ago, Loddon said:

It does read that it was enacted in 2004 which I know it wasn't

There is still a caveat on the legislation

 

Section 80 also provides a power to except, by regulations, non-professional mariners who do not pose substantial safety risks from the prescribed limits and the requirement to provide specimens.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/notes/division/4/6/2/3

 

Needs more investigation, its the least of that woman's worries anyway

 

This

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/20/section/80#section-80-4

Says that sec of state can exempt locations which was done I believe in 2003/4

Need to find if the exemption has been removed

 

 

It agree it used to say "not yet enacted" but if you look at the screen print (below) section 80 appears to have been enacted as it seems to be unamended since the "Original (as enacted)"

 

 

Screenshot (182).png

Screenshot (183).png

 

 

17 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

From Police Scotland's SOP:

https://www.scotland.police.uk/assets/pdf/151934/184779/drink-drug-railways-marine-and-aviation-sop

3.3 Non-Professional / Recreational Mariners

   3.3.1 The provisions do not yet apply to non-professional or recreational mariners, as Section 80 of the Act has not yet been enacted.

 

Commencement notes on the act :

 

S. 80(4)(5) in force at 30.3.2004 by S.I. 2004/827art. 3(c)

 

So as I understand it section 80 (1) (2) and (3) have not commenced.

 

I think that charge will get quietly dropped …

 

 

Maybe it has not been enacted in Scotland ?

Edited by Alan de Enfield
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27 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

Commencement notes on the act :

 

S. 80(4)(5) in force at 30.3.2004 by S.I. 2004/827art. 3(c)

 

So as I understand it section 80 (1) (2) and (3) have not commenced.

 

I think that charge will get quietly dropped ...

 

That makes sense to me 

Only 4&5 enacted

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2004/827/article/3/made#article-3-c

Edited by Loddon
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1 hour ago, Athy said:

To be fair to the local paper, they do give more priority to this woman biting a policemen and possessing cocaine than to her state of sobriety. Those two offences alone would, I should imagine, be sufficient have her put away for a while.

But it said she pleaded guilty to the drinking offence which could set a president and the old bill could have us all blowing in bags

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4 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

....... the old bill could have us all blowing in bags

I have always worked on the basis that the drink drive limits for driving a car would be applied .  However this obviously doesn't apply t being drunk in charge as it would with a road vehicle. 

 

It is only a situation where damage occurs that the police might be involved. I don't think there is need to fear random breath tests.

 

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4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

I have always worked on the basis that the drink drive limits for driving a car would be applied .  However this obviously doesn't apply t being drunk in charge as it would with a road vehicle. 

 

It is only a situation where damage occurs that the police might be involved. I don't think there is need to fear random breath tests.

 

 ... which aren't legal on the roads, either, except by application of the Ways and Means Act.

 

With regard to the newspaper report, my understanding is that  only subsections 4 and 5 of Sec.80 (Railways and Transport Safety Act) are in force.

6 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Maybe it has not been enacted in Scotland ?

It's a Westminster Act, applying to the UK, so doesn't need separate Scottish legislation to bring it nto force.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 26/05/2020 at 14:12, Athy said:

To be fair to the local paper, they do give more priority to this woman biting a policemen and possessing cocaine than to her state of sobriety. Those two offences alone would, I should imagine, be sufficient have her put away for a while.

 

You think she'll go to prison for that, without any prior convictions? I very much doubt it.

Edited by blackrose
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I contacted the RYA and they confirmed that section 80 has not been brought into law.

 

Hi Brian. Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I have spoken with our Legal team and they have confirmed that the Alcohol & Boating web page is up to date, including the information concerning section 80 1,2,3. I can also confirm that section 80 of the legislation has not become active for recreational boaters. I hope that helps. Thanks Emma

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On 26/05/2020 at 15:57, ditchcrawler said:

But it said she pleaded guilty to the drinking offence which could set a president and the old bill could have us all blowing in bags

No, she admitted being drunk in charge of the boat - which was true. It wouldn't be the first time someone has pleaded guilty to something that isn't actually a crime. 

 

If the police successfully prosecute someone for, say, doing 35mph in a 40 limit, on the basis that everybody, judge included, thought that length of road had a 30 limit, it wouldn't make doing 35 in a 40 an offence, it would make the conviction unsound.

 

I suspect a breathalyser could be used as evidence that someone was drunk on a boat, but it would only be evidence, not an offence in itself. 

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1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I contacted the RYA and they confirmed that section 80 has not been brought into law.

 

Hi Brian. Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. I have spoken with our Legal team and they have confirmed that the Alcohol & Boating web page is up to date, including the information concerning section 80 1,2,3. I can also confirm that section 80 of the legislation has not become active for recreational boaters. I hope that helps. Thanks Emma

The lack of a law doesn't give approval to driving  a boat while  drunk. Does it  ?

 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

No, but it means that failing a Breathalyzer test is not, of itself, an offence

A problem only arises if there is an accident.

 

 

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If it had been enacted, as originally written, I believe it would have become an offence to be over the drink-drive limit even when you are a live-aboard, moored up, and with demonstrably no intention of doing any boating such as when you are asleep at night.

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25 minutes ago, MartynG said:

A problem only arises if there is an accident.

 

 

Exactly - a boating accident or incident to which the police are called, they suspect the boater is drunk, breathalyze the boater, the level of alcohol recorded will be evidence that they were drunk (or not), whereas after a road accident, the if the driver is over the permitted level, that is automatically an offence, regardless of any consequences of having been drinking 

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I am not disagreeing regarding the law. 

 

People would be wise to avoid being drunk when driving/moving  a boat in case they do have an accident especially if someone is  injured .

Even a minor injury these days could lead to a significant claim and insurers could walk away - or insurers pay up and seek a recovery . All insurances required the insured to take reasonable care and not to behave recklessly.

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1 hour ago, Keeping Up said:

If it had been enacted, as originally written, I believe it would have become an offence to be over the drink-drive limit even when you are a live-aboard, moored up, and with demonstrably no intention of doing any boating such as when you are asleep at night.

 

And if, as you come in to moor at the bottom of the pub garden, a drinker already there lends a hand by taking a rope, he would be committing an offence if over the 80mg limit.

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On 26/05/2020 at 15:57, ditchcrawler said:

she pleaded guilty to the drinking offence which could set a president

 

Couldn't possibly be worse that the present occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

 

 

2 hours ago, MartynG said:

I am not disagreeing regarding the law. 

 

People would be wise to avoid being drunk when driving/moving  a boat in case they do have an accident especially if someone is  injured .

Even a minor injury these days could lead to a significant claim and insurers could walk away - or insurers pay up and seek a recovery . All insurances required the insured to take reasonable care and not to behave recklessly.

 

I agree. I'll have a beer when steering, but never if I know we are going to go through locks that afternoon. 

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3 hours ago, Keeping Up said:

If it had been enacted, as originally written, I believe it would have become an offence to be over the drink-drive limit even when you are a live-aboard, moored up, and with demonstrably no intention of doing any boating such as when you are asleep at night.

Not sure how motor homes come on with that one, but I think you are right.

 

Edited because my spill chucker has chucked its hand in

Edited by ditchcrawler
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On 06/06/2020 at 16:26, ditchcrawler said:

Not sure how motor homes come on with that one, but I think you are right.

 

Edited because my spill chucker has chucked its hand in

There is a statutory defence to being drunk in charge of a motor vehicle if it can be shown that there was no likelyhood of the vehicle being driven before the driver is under the limit. I believe the usually quoted case involved a chap sleeping in his car in a pub car park. 

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