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Planning to repaint our boat, wasnt intending to strip it just remove rust, undercoat and top coats.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BOAT-BARGE-PAINT-YACHT-PAINT-MARINE-PAINT-/272420451311

 

Was looking at this paint, any opinions and advice on an undercoat as they dont seem to do one.

 

Thanks 

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Interesting, seems to be decent oil based with white spirit base.  Full 1 litre cans too at a fair price. 2.5 litre very reasonably priced too.

I have heard that polyurethane varnish can be prone to peeling used externally but not sure if this applies to pigmented paints.

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Never got on with or liked Toplac. International used to do a paint called Brightside, which I thought was much better than Toplac, but they stopped producing Brightside. Epifanes gloss paint I found to be very consistent at delivering good gloss, and it's easy to work with, although, I didn't reckon much to their non-slip paint, in that, the International non-slip gave a much better and thicker textured surface. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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A lot depends on if you are doing a top job or just tidying up a rough old boat (where a pristine paint job might look wrong).

 

People on this forum tend to recommend what they have used themselves. Most pro painters are happy to use whatever the customer specifies, which suggests they thing most "proper" paints are similar. Some paints are very common at chandlers, but id this because they are good or just that they are well known brands?

 

International is probably the most common, with Craftmaster gaining ground, both quite expensive. Rylards is getting less common. At the cheaper end then Teamac is common. Some people like to use the stuff from the local DIY shop.

 

Preparing and painting a boat is quite a big job so I would use one of the more expensive brands as they are made for boats and reliable.

 

A cheap paint might be a cheap paint, or it might be a good paint without the marketing overhead costs, you won't know for a few years.

 

In general undercoat is not essential, but to give good protection several coats might be required and undercoat can be a bit thicker and cheaper so its probably better to use an undercoat rather than an extra coat of gloss.

 

Other will differ, and I confess I am a crap painter ?

 

...............Dave

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49 minutes ago, dmr said:

A lot depends on if you are doing a top job or just tidying up a rough old boat (where a pristine paint job might look wrong).

 

People on this forum tend to recommend what they have used themselves. Most pro painters are happy to use whatever the customer specifies, which suggests they thing most "proper" paints are similar. Some paints are very common at chandlers, but id this because they are good or just that they are well known brands?

 

International is probably the most common, with Craftmaster gaining ground, both quite expensive. Rylards is getting less common. At the cheaper end then Teamac is common. Some people like to use the stuff from the local DIY shop.

 

Preparing and painting a boat is quite a big job so I would use one of the more expensive brands as they are made for boats and reliable.

 

A cheap paint might be a cheap paint, or it might be a good paint without the marketing overhead costs, you won't know for a few years.

 

In general undercoat is not essential, but to give good protection several coats might be required and undercoat can be a bit thicker and cheaper so its probably better to use an undercoat rather than an extra coat of gloss.

 

Other will differ, and I confess I am a crap painter ?

 

...............Dave

 

In my experience, very few customers specify which paint, they tend to check out the painter, and the painter's work. In the years of painting boats, I think one customer was absolutely set on another paint, and that was a two pack. Mostly, the customer needs a bit  of help with the colours, or else, they want you to copy the scheme a boat already has.   

 

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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4 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

In my experience, very few customers specify which paint, they tend to check out the painter, and the painter's work. In the years of painting boats, I think one customer was absolutely set on another paint, and that was a two pack. Mostly, the customer needs a bit  of help with the colours, or else, they want you to copy the scheme a boat already has.   

 

 

 

 

A while ago I had a look at a few painters websites to see what paint they used, and most said whatever the customer wants which did not help me at all ?. Do most painters have a preferred paint or do they use whatever best matches the existing paint on the boat?

 

I am mostly doing small repairs, a door or side hatch door is about my limit. We will need a repaint soon but I will be very tempted to employ a professional painter unless I can really improve my painting skills.

 

..............Dave

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All of the yards I work with have their own preferred paint brand which is what they normally use. Most stick with it, knowing how the paint flows on and out. I’ve only known of one instance where the customer specified the brand to be used, I’m sorry to say that problems occurred after a couple of years, despite application in a covered dock by highly experienced professional painters. Craftmaster, Epifanes, International and Masons are among preferred brands. What one painter swears by, another will swear at!!

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As the definitive non-painter and having tried a number of first and second line paints I finally settled for Johnstons Trade Gloss. They will mix to ant BS or RAL number. I found it one of the easiest to apply, ran out well and gave a fair gloss.

 

If repainting the whole boat be wary of any colour that does not give a BS or RAL number. It may be a "house" colour and if discontinued later you have had it.

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1 hour ago, dmr said:

A while ago I had a look at a few painters websites to see what paint they used, and most said whatever the customer wants which did not help me at all ?. Do most painters have a preferred paint or do they use whatever best matches the existing paint on the boat?

 

I am mostly doing small repairs, a door or side hatch door is about my limit. We will need a repaint soon but I will be very tempted to employ a professional painter unless I can really improve my painting skills.

 

..............Dave

 

Pretty much as Dave Moore says, in his reply to your post. I used Epifanes, and also liked Masons and International Brightside. Couldn't comment on Craftmaster, would like to try it, but never got around to using it. 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

Pretty much as Dave Moore says, in his reply to your post. I used Epifanes, and also liked Masons and International Brightside. Couldn't comment on Craftmaster, would like to try it, but never got around to using it. 

 

 

Is Masons still around?

Edited by Traveller
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54 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Is Masons still around?

 

Masons brand I think is finished. The paint was being produced under another name, but I don't know the name; it has cropped up, from time to time on here, but I can't really be much help. I'd quite like some myself. My boat is painted in Masons, somewhere I have 5 Ltrs. I think it's under the front deck, but so are a lot of other things - hope it's still usable. Sorry. 

 

Found this on another thread, titled - Masons Paint. 

 

"Masons paints used to be almost the industry standard around many paint docks back in the 90s, they were the preferred choice of many coach painters, including my friend and colleague Phil Speight. They had a chain of sources countrywide and I could call my local depot, order a litre of colour and have it delivered the following day. They became less accommodating, insisting on minimum orders, and bad experiences led Phil to found Craftmaster as the antidote.I understand that the plant no longer produces paint and that so called "Masons" is either produced by Chromadex or small outfits mixing to Masons formulae. bear in mind that the formulations will have changed because of the Volatile Organic Compound regulations....no paint is what it was 20 years ago, regardless of who makes it!" - Dave Moore 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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Masons as such ceased to exist years ago, taken over, I believe, by Azko Nobel. There are still suppliers who can offer paint to their formulas, though I don’t know of anyone, except perhaps Andy Russell, who uses it. Masons P Type was a popular choice back in the day....

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7 minutes ago, dave moore said:

Masons as such ceased to exist years ago, taken over, I believe, by Azko Nobel. There are still suppliers who can offer paint to their formulas, though I don’t know of anyone, except perhaps Andy Russell, who uses it. Masons P Type was a popular choice back in the day....

 

Akzo Nobel Car Refinishes
136 Milton Park
Abingdon
OXON
OX14 4SB

Tel: 01235 862226
Email: ukcustomersupport@akzonobel.com

 

I picked this up from a link in the Masons Paint thread. Azko Nobel advertise a Masons CT.   ??

 

 

 

Edited by Higgs
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7 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

Pretty much as Dave Moore says, in his reply to your post. I used Epifanes, and also liked Masons and International Brightside. Couldn't comment on Craftmaster, would like to try it, but never got around to using it. 

 

 

I'm getting some Craftmaster tomorrow to see how it goes. I've used their raddle on the roof for years but putting silk finish on a roof is not nearly as challenging as gloss on a vertical surface. I always thought Craftmaster was really expensive but their tins are a full litre whilst many others are only 750ml so its probably actually a bit cheaper.

My main concern is that Craftmaster is formulated for Phil Speight who is alleged to be quite good ?? whilst I suspect Toplac etc are aimed to give decent results in amateur hands.

 

I think Ive got 1/4 tin of Masons black (somewhere), do you think its now valuable? ?

 

................Dave

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9 hours ago, dmr said:

I'm getting some Craftmaster tomorrow to see how it goes. I've used their raddle on the roof for years but putting silk finish on a roof is not nearly as challenging as gloss on a vertical surface. I always thought Craftmaster was really expensive but their tins are a full litre whilst many others are only 750ml so its probably actually a bit cheaper.

My main concern is that Craftmaster is formulated for Phil Speight who is alleged to be quite good ?? whilst I suspect Toplac etc are aimed to give decent results in amateur hands.

 

I think Ive got 1/4 tin of Masons black (somewhere), do you think its now valuable? ?

 

................Dave

 

I remember the Masons firm, it was on Nottingham Road, in Derby - my home town. The site has been redeveloped. Shouldn't be concerned about Craftmaster, I'm sure it'll be ok. The paint is only part of the process, it won't hide brush marks on the surface below or achieve its best, if applied poorly. If you're laying off with a brush, there's no need to expect the brush marks to have disappeared there and then. Applied evenly, and not thickly, moving on swiftly, the brush marks will be taken care of by the paint as it begins to cure. Painting is a mechanical process. You have to be part machine when you're painting. No haphazard brush strokes. That way, painters reduce the effort they need to put in to the painting. It's a system to get the job done in a consistent fashion. 

 

The brush needs to have some spring in it. Not stiff, not weak. 

 

Don't try and get the final finish, in the application part of the painting. With the application done correctly, the paint will do the rest and settle as it dries. 

 

Edited by Higgs
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58 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I remember the Masons firm, it was on Nottingham Road, in Derby - my home town. The site has been redeveloped. Shouldn't be concerned about Craftmaster, I'm sure it'll be ok. The paint is only part of the process, it won't hide brush marks on the surface below or achieve its best, if applied poorly. If you're laying of with a brush, there's no need to expect the brush marks to have disappeared there and then. Applied evenly, and not thickly, moving on swiftly, the brush marks will be taken care of by the paint as it begins to cure. Painting is a mechanical process. You have to be part machine when you're painting. No haphazard brush strokes. That way, painters reduce the effort they need to put in to the painting. 

 

Don't try and get the final finish, in the application part of the painting. With the application done correctly, the paint will do the rest and settle as it dries. 

 

Thanks.

Its sort of magic how the brush marks fade away. I actually quite like some slight brush marks as its a hand painted old boat, not a sprayed car.

I really struggle with getting the paint on, I find the dividing line between not enough paint with drag marks, or too much with runs and sags, is a difficult one. I painted the front and back but am not sure I could tackle the cabin sides. I booked onto a Phil Speight training course some years ago but it got cancelled. I think my repaint plan, maybe next year, will be to hire a wet dock, get all the portholes out myself and do some initial prep, then get a proper painter in to do the actual brushing.

At the moment i'm getting a bit bogged down in choosing the exact colour so going to experiment with some paint mixing, then hopefully get Craftmaster to supply my chosen custom colour.

 

...............Dave

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2 minutes ago, dmr said:

I find the dividing line between not enough paint with drag marks, or too much with runs and sags, is a difficult one

In my experience that's exactly the difficulty that all amateurs including myself struggle with.  My favoured method to paint interior doors used to be to take them off their hinges and lay them flat; that way I could err on the 'too much' side of laying the paint on.

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10 hours ago, dmr said:

I'm getting some Craftmaster tomorrow to see how it goes. I've used their raddle on the roof for years but putting silk finish on a roof is not nearly as challenging as gloss on a vertical surface. I always thought Craftmaster was really expensive but their tins are a full litre whilst many others are only 750ml so its probably actually a bit cheaper.

My main concern is that Craftmaster is formulated for Phil Speight who is alleged to be quite good ?? whilst I suspect Toplac etc are aimed to give decent results in amateur hands.

 

I think Ive got 1/4 tin of Masons black (somewhere), do you think its now valuable? ?

 

................Dave

The bits of touching up I did with Craftmaster went on very well and smoothly with a good covering, but that was only little bits,

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3 hours ago, WotEver said:

In my experience that's exactly the difficulty that all amateurs including myself struggle with.  My favoured method to paint interior doors used to be to take them off their hinges and lay them flat; that way I could err on the 'too much' side of laying the paint on.

Thats exactly what I did with the side hatches and front and back doors. With a cabin side its more difficult. There is an old "boat turner" at the CRT Bradely workshops, but we would need to have a major tidy up inside the boat before rotating it. ?

 

.................Dave

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