Increased demand on the waterways this summer ?

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Naughty Cal said:

That's the same with boats though. People extracting the Michael and ignoring the no overnight stops rule.

Yeah and it does seem a stupid rule allowing people to go to their boats but then have to travel home again. However we are doing stuff as we should. The mrs is driving two hours to one of our kids to see her tomorrow with the grandkids but she is driving home again in the evening.

[haggis]

I didn't know wild camping wasn't allowed on England which perhaps explains why it is so popular up here. When done responsibly it is fine but sadly too many aren't responsible .My sister in law has a CL site in a lovely rural area which is being spoilt by selfish inconsiderate folk who as well as camping on every bit of available grass verge let their dogs chase sheep and other farm animals. Yet again this weekend sheep were killed by campers dogs. 

We haven't had an email from CRT about the canals being open but from what someone posted on another thread the CRT web site doesn't mention the no overnight stay on board

Haggis

 

 

 

[Lady M]

If you subscribe to the Boaters' Update, you should have received one last Friday.  Clicking on the link for 'Things to know before commencing a longer journey on your boat (after 1 June)' takes you to advice on the CRT website which includes a reminder about who can stay on board overnight.  ie only those for whom the boat is their primary residence.

 

I appreciate this is disappointing for many of us but it does reflect current Government guidelines.

[Momac]

1 hour ago, haggis said:

A lot of camper vans/motor homes  are coming up from England and wild camping and they are most unwelcome......

Which is, of course,  against the present regulations . Unfortunately there are large numbers of people who are behaving as if everything has returned to normal.

I do fear these behaviours risk  a second wave that could require a further significant lockdown.

 

It's no good if business goes back to normal only to face a repeat lockdown or worse still to find   a large percentage of their customers are deceased. 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by MartynG

[haggis]

1 hour ago, Lady C said:

If you subscribe to the Boaters' Update, you should have received one last Friday.  Clicking on the link for 'Things to know before commencing a longer journey on your boat (after 1 June)' takes you to advice on the CRT website which includes a reminder about who can stay on board overnight.  ie only those for whom the boat is their primary residence.

 

I appreciate this is disappointing for many of us but it does reflect current Government guidelines.

Thank you, Lady G. I had received that notice but I wondered if there was perhaps a later one which we had missed as apparently the web site doesn't say anything about not staying on board. 

We will just be patient for a bit longer as having obeyed the "rules" of Covid up to now we will carry on doing so.

 

haggis

[peterboat]

So I was stopped by Plod in my camper today in Derbyshire soon as I told them where I was going it was all ok, on Friday whilst in the supermarket I heard a guy talking to assistant complaining that his tent and belongings had gone whilst he was walking and camping, clearly he has no idea you cant do it and your tent gets removed by plod. Homeless camping near us in the boat have had tents removed by plod as well seems like you cant be homeless either....................

[twbm]

I'm not sure people who are used to paying around £500 a week for a fully inclusive holiday in say Turkey will want to fork out the daft prices you have to pay to hire a boat, do your own shopping and cooking and buy your own beer assuming there's a pub you can actually get in to, whilst gambling on the weather being passable.   

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, twbm said:

I'm not sure people who are used to paying around £500 a week for a fully inclusive holiday in say Turkey will want to fork out the daft prices you have to pay to hire a boat, do your own shopping and cooking and buy your own beer assuming there's a pub you can actually get in to, whilst gambling on the weather being passable.   

£100 (each way) taxi to /from the airport

Family of 4 = £2000

 

1 week hire of 4 berth Nb = ? £1000

 

Why do folks go and pay £25 per night to pitch a tent up in a field ?

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, Naughty Cal said:

That's the same with boats though. People extracting the Michael and ignoring the no overnight stops rule.

 

I wonder if it can be legally circumvented by steering in shifts throughout the night with the other half? ??

Edited June 1, 2020 by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space

[beerbeerbeerbeerbeer]

2 hours ago, twbm said:

I'm not sure people who are used to paying around £500 a week for a fully inclusive holiday in say Turkey will want to fork out the daft prices you have to pay to hire a boat, do your own shopping and cooking and buy your own beer assuming there's a pub you can actually get in to, whilst gambling on the weather being passable.   

There’s an opening here:

To check the coast is clear ; Pay me to travel ahead, shop and cook, drink and gamble. 
Everyone’s a winner. 

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, twbm said:

I'm not sure people who are used to paying around £500 a week for a fully inclusive holiday in say Turkey will want to fork out the daft prices you have to pay to hire a boat, do your own shopping and cooking and buy your own beer assuming there's a pub you can actually get in to, whilst gambling on the weather being passable.   

We bought a camper van just before lockdown looks like it might have been a good decision in light of what's happening now

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, peterboat said:

We bought a camper van just before lockdown looks like it might have been a good decision in light of what's happening now

I am already booked up for august away in ours all or nearly all are cl sites for adults only. They are getting busy the prices range quite considerably but two sites are only 15 quid a night including leccy hook up, some sites are over 30 but average price is about twenty. Its going to be busy. Motorhome prices fell at begining of the year but have jumped up over the last couple of weeks.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

I am already booked up for august away in ours all or nearly all are cl sites for adults only. They are getting busy the prices range quite considerably but two sites are only 15 quid a night including leccy hook up, some sites are over 30 but average price is about twenty. Its going to be busy. Motorhome prices fell at begining of the year but have jumped up over the last couple of weeks.

Don't I know it Tim, I bought mine at the bottom I suspect, done work on it an have turned down a very good offer on it! Have you looked at Brit Stops? Worth a grander 

[Alan de Enfield]

On 01/06/2020 at 08:11, Knighty said:

I wonder if the current lack of rainfall will also cause problems in the Summer with low water levels?

From NBW :

 

 

Three closed canals will be fully open but with restrictions

Published: Tuesday, 02 June 2020

THE Canal & River Trust regrets to confirm that navigation opportunities along the Leeds & Liverpool, Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals this summer will be restricted.

This it adds is due to the combined effect of reduced reservoir capacity and one of the driest springs on record, but  keeping boats moving during the peak holiday months of July and August is now the top priority and the Trust’s operational and water management teams are working hard to conserve enough water now to ensure this happens.

Fully open?

In July, the three canals will be fully open to navigation but with certain restrictions, to be confirmed at a later date.  This is likely to coincide with when Government lockdown guidelines change to allow boaters to stay overnight on their boats. and holiday hire boats to start operating again. Until then, opportunities for leisure boating will unfortunately be limited in any case.

To conserve water and ensure we are able to offer navigation in July and August, the three North West [Northern] canals will not be re-opened on 1st June when coronavirus navigation restrictions are relaxed across the rest of the canal network.

Emergency boat movements

However, the Trust is planning to offer boaters a ‘window’ for emergency boat movements sometime in the next couple of weeks; we’ll be confirming these dates later this week.

Boaters will still be able to cruise along lock-free sections of the canals but, according to government guidance, will not be able to stay overnight on their boats, unless they live aboard.  The canals will continue to be open for towpath use, and for angling, canoeing and other un-powered boats as long as the government’s social distancing rules are strictly observed.

Far below what is required

Due to the dry weather, the reservoir holding for the Leeds & Liverpool Canal is currently only 62% of its capacity—far below what is required for unrestricted use of the canal at this stage of the year. Despite the wet winter, the canal relies on a regular supply of rainfall throughout the year to replenish its resources, and the last three months have been exceptionally dry.

This includes the driest April on record as measured by the summit reservoir rain gauge and an even dryer May. This is coupled with the fact that key reservoirs are not currently able to operate at peak capacity due to vital maintenance work.

Severely hampered

The operation of the Peak Forest and Macclesfield canals has been severely hampered by the loss of Toddbrook Reservoir, near Whaley Bridge, which is currently undergoing a major repair project. The Trust has carried out a wide-ranging programme of upgrade and repair works over the winter to improve the water supplies from nearby Combs Reservoir as well as Bosley and Sutton reservoirs.

The Trust has also arranged with the Environment Agency for water to pass from Combs reservoir via local brooks into the River Goyt and pumped from there into the Peak Forest Canal, whilst repairs to the feeder are addressed, to ensure that the supply is robust.

[Mike Todd]

21 hours ago, haggis said:

Are caravan sites open in England yet? They are still closed in Scotland and we are still in the stage of necessary journeys only. A lot of camper vans/motor homes  are coming up from England and wild camping and they are most unwelcome, especially in country areas where folk have been obeying the rules only to have wild campers come in possibly carrying the virus and touch gates, fences etc and leave their litter behind. 

This sort of selfish behaviour does nothing for the relationship for folk from across the border ? 

I gather Wales is in the same position as Scotland just now.

 

haggis

Not that different down here at the other extreme end

[Alan de Enfield]

Even the 'Land marinas' (Static caravan parks) are remaining closed.

 

Caravan parks along the Lincolnshire coast will remain closed ‘until further notice’ after Boris Johnson’s latest address to the nation, an operator has revealed.

Blue Anchor Leisure Ltd, which runs 13 sitse in around seaside towns and villages in the county, says it will not allow any access to its parks for the foreseeable future.

It says anyone found visiting their caravans will be escorted off site by the firm’s security teams.

In a statement to customers, a Blue Anchor Leisure Ltd spokesperson said: “We would like to clarify that our parks are classed as part of the hospitality industry and as addressed tonight in Boris’s announcement the hospitality, leisure and tourism sector will not be reviewed until Jul 1, 2020.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

And today :

 

A holiday park operator on the Lincolnshire coast says there is "no legal obligation" for them to provide caravan owners with a refund or reduction on their ground rent due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Coastfield Leisure operates popular sites such as Coastfields Holiday Village, Grange Leisure Park, North Shore Holiday Centre and Skegness Fields Holiday Park.

The park welcomes visitors to stay there along with a number of people who own their own vans on a particular site - but it is unclear whether caravan owners are entitled to, or should be given, a refund or reduction on their ground rent as caravan parks across the country remain closed due to the virus.

A letter obtained by Lincolnshire Live and sent to caravans owners on Coastfield Leisure sites states: "You will all have no doubt seen the conflicting and confusing stories about the subject of ground rent refunds on social and national media.

"Most parks will have slightly differing conditions and billing cycles for their owners.

"However, our position at Coastfields Leisure is that we continue to provide you with what we have agreed to in our terms that govern your right to station a holiday home on one of our parks.

 

"As referred to earlier in this letter, we are maintaining our parks, and have continued to provide and maintain utility services to your holiday home.

"We do not currently consider there to be any legal obligation for us to grant any reduction or refund in ground rent due to the shutdown of our parks enforced upon us by a government legislation surrounding the Covid-19 outbreak."

 

 

[robtheplod]

Interesting how the different holiday parks are treating this, especially with what Alan has posted above. I wouldn't be happy being denied access to my caravan for any reason whatsoever - surely checking/maintenance should be allowed?

 

Once restrictions are lifted i think people will remember how their Marina/Caravan park dealt with the situation and may make arrangements accordingly (such as move it), especially as localised lockdowns could be thing for some time. 

[haggis]

3 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Interesting how the different holiday parks are treating this, especially with what Alan has posted above. I wouldn't be happy being denied access to my caravan for any reason whatsoever - surely checking/maintenance should be allowed?

 

 

Not much different to what is happening to those who don't live on their boat! OK, just recently we were told that we could visit our boats but not stay overnight. Fat lot of good when your boat is 300 miles away!  Until the "rules" on visiting second homes is relaxed, I don't see the "rules" for non live aboard boats being changed. 

 

haggis

[robtheplod]

1 minute ago, haggis said:

Not much different to what is happening to those who don't live on their boat! OK, just recently we were told that we could visit our boats but not stay overnight. Fat lot of good when your boat is 300 miles away!  Until the "rules" on visiting second homes is relaxed, I don't see the "rules" for non live aboard boats being changed. 

 

haggis

True.... in Alans posts, is the fact they are mentioning being a part of the hospitality industry means they are subject to different laws/rules than Marinas? The blanket ban does seem very draconian.

[jeddlad]

27 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Once restrictions are lifted i think people will remember how their Marina/Caravan park dealt with the situation and may make arrangements accordingly (such as move it), especially as localised lockdowns could be thing for some time. 

Yes but it's far easier to move a boat to another marina than it is to move a static caravan to another caravan park. We have a family caravan on the East coast that is used mainly by my elderly parents. I often visit them when they are there. The caravan site has been woeful with its communication and I can't see, despite it having furlough their staff, that they will refund any ground rent for 2020, that's already been paid fully in advance.  I'd love us to move site but it costs around a £1,500 to actually move the caravan by truck (including the existing site charging for it to be moved off their land). The only other option is to sell our caravan and buy another one on a different site. Unfortunately this is not cost effective for us as our caravan, although in good condition, is quiet old and not worth much. We'll be staying where we are and the site owners will think they did the right thing by not offering a refund or credit. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by jeddlad
Spelling

[jeddlad]

29 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

Interesting how the different holiday parks are treating this, especially with what Alan has posted above. I wouldn't be happy being denied access to my caravan for any reason whatsoever - surely checking/maintenance should be allowed 

Most caravan sites have not allowed anyone on their property even to check their caravan or remove belongings. Ours allowed it during the 1st week but have since padlocked all entry gates. There are a number of couples caught out by this. They usually stay in cheap accommodation or motorhome in Spain over the winter and stay in their static caravan over the summer. Similar to boats who live aboard, if the caravan is your only UK residence, you can continue to live at the caravan park. However, unlike continuous cruisers, for a caravan to qualify as your sole UK residence, you must pay council tax on it..........which none do....on our site anyway. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by jeddlad
Grammar

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, jeddlad said:

I can't see, despite it having furlough their staff, that they will refund any ground rent for 2020, that's already been paid fully in advance.

The other way to look at it is,:

 

The ground rent covers the maintenance of the grounds (cutting grass, maintaining roadways etc), the provision of utilities, labour cost, etc etc.

The Park owners have 'honoured' their side of the bargain, it is not their fault that they have been forced to close the park - they will still be paying £millions in rate, standing charges for water and electricity etc irrespective of the park being used or not.

 

If anything the 'claim' for a refund should be sent to the Government for curtailment of civil liberties.

[jeddlad]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

The other way to look at it is,:

 

The ground rent covers the maintenance of the grounds (cutting grass, maintaining roadways etc), the provision of utilities, labour cost, etc etc.

The Park owners have 'honoured' their side of the bargain, it is not their fault that they have been forced to close the park - they will still be paying £millions in rate, standing charges for water and electricity etc irrespective of the park being used or not.

 

If anything the 'claim' for a refund should be sent to the Government for curtailment of civil liberties.

We understand that so we're not too bothered but, when a company reduces it's overheads by furloughing it's staff, the Council stop charging business rates for the government closure period and that comapny's 2020 income remains the same as all its customers have paid in advance for their ground rent, don't you think it's a tad unfair Alan? 

[peterboat]

16 minutes ago, jeddlad said:

We understand that so we're not too bothered but, when a company reduces it's overheads by furloughing it's staff, the Council stop charging business rates for the government closure period and that comapny's 2020 income remains the same as all its customers have paid in advance for their ground rent, don't you think it's a tad unfair Alan? 

Its only same for boats,  my moorings still have to be paid and fully still has to pay crt