Advice on this boat as a first boat purchase?

[Tasemu]

Hiya again, i was hoping to get some thoughts and/or advice regarding this as a potential first boat for living aboard for my girlfriend and myself.

 

Link: https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Lady-Morgana-Brochure-2.pdf

 

Thanks for any help/advice as always.

[Tracy D'arth]

Old, will need to have a hull survey for insurance acceptance.

There is no idea of plating thicknesses or builder, its a very odd stern shape, could be a one off.

Way, way too expensive, its an owner fit out, how do they know its a 1986 build? That could be just when he finally finished it. 

No pedigree, Far too many "unknown" items, no excuse for not knowing what the gearbox is.

No heating, the stove next to the doors will not warm the back of the boat.

Avoid.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Athy]

While not wishing to blunt Tasemu's obvious enthusiasm, I must agree with most of Tracy's points, adding that a 40-foot cruiser stern may not offer sufficient interior space for comfortable living for a couple.

 

I'm guessing that he's picked it out because it's within their budget. But frankly (and I say this as someone who does like individualistic old boats) it looks a bloody shambles to me.

[Tasemu]

17 minutes ago, Athy said:

While not wishing to blunt Tasemu's obvious enthusiasm, I must agree with most of Tracy's points, adding that a 40-foot cruiser stern may not offer sufficient interior space for comfortable living for a couple.

 

I'm guessing that he's picked it out because it's within their budget. But frankly (and I say this as someone who does like individualistic old boats) it looks a bloody shambles to me.

Aye I was a bit worried about the length, the owner has stated that they would accept 22.5k for it, which made me want to consider it seriously. Should have stated that in the OP.

54 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Old, will need to have a hull survey for insurance acceptance.

There is no idea of plating thicknesses or builder, its a very odd stern shape, could be a one off.

Way, way too expensive, its an owner fit out, how do they know its a 1986 build? That could be just when he finally finished it. 

No pedigree, Far too many "unknown" items, no excuse for not knowing what the gearbox is.

No heating, the stove next to the doors will not warm the back of the boat.

Avoid.

how old do they need to be to require a hull survey for insurance? Would the survey i got before purchase count?

The other points you state make sense. As i replied just above, would the 22.5k price tag change your opinion?

[waterdog]

1 hour ago, Tasemu said:

Hiya again, i was hoping to get some thoughts and/or advice regarding this as a potential first boat for living aboard for my girlfriend and myself.

 

Link: https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Lady-Morgana-Brochure-2.pdf

 

Thanks for any help/advice as always.

This one is on the K&A, might be worth a look, not sure about the stove pipe though ??

 

https://www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/3607web/3607abnb.php?BoatID=3607

[Tasemu]

Just now, waterdog said:

This one is on the K&A, might be worth a look, not sure about the stove pipe though ??

 

https://www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/3607web/3607abnb.php?BoatID=3607

Looks good, unfortunately £38,000 is outside my budget.

[waterdog]

ok, but remember a bit of haggling might work, sometimes (not always) boats go for a lot less than the ticket price. 

[Tracy D'arth]

17 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Aye I was a bit worried about the length, the owner has stated that they would accept 22.5k for it, which made me want to consider it seriously. Should have stated that in the OP.

how old do they need to be to require a hull survey for insurance? Would the survey i got before purchase count?

The other points you state make sense. As i replied just above, would the 22.5k price tag change your opinion?

There is a huge difference between an engineer's hull survey and a buyers overall survey. Your insurance may not accept the later. Normally required when 25 or 30 years old to get comprehensive insurance. Other wise you may get 3rd party only which does not protect your investment if the unthinkable happens and it sinks/burns.

 

Still too dear at £20k, its 34 years old At least for heavens sake, it didn't cost that when when new as a self fitout!

Edited May 20, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

how old do they need to be to require a hull survey for insurance? Would the survey i got before purchase count?

Different companies has differing requirements, some are 20 years old, some 25 and the odd one 30 years.

 

If you had a full structural survey - yes it would count for the insurance requirement.

[Alastair]

Agree with many points, particularly space for 2.

 

Living aboard, you need space to store *all* your possessions. All your clothes. Books, bedding, towels, electronics, tools; everything. It is well worth trying to pack up everything you want, looking at how much space that takes up and considering where you would put it on a boat.

[Athy]

11 minutes ago, Alastair said:

Agree with many points, particularly space for 2.

 

Living aboard, you need space to store *all* your possessions. All your clothes. Books, bedding, towels, electronics, tools; everything. It is well worth trying to pack up everything you want, looking at how much space that takes up and considering where you would put it on a boat.

A well-made point. If Mrs. Athy and I attempted to live on our (45 foot trad) boat, we'd need to tow a butty for our books, my records and her shoes.

[doratheexplorer]

36 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Aye I was a bit worried about the length, the owner has stated that they would accept 22.5k for it, which made me want to consider it seriously. Should have stated that in the OP.

how old do they need to be to require a hull survey for insurance? Would the survey i got before purchase count?

The other points you state make sense. As i replied just above, would the 22.5k price tag change your opinion?

I looked at it, thought "that's about £5k overpriced.  Then read your post!

 

At around £20k you're nearing the bottom of the market for narrowboats of that length which still actually work.  So it's probably pretty good value.  Especially if you can push them a bit lower.

 

There are some red flag issues which need to be investigated:

 

1.  There's no such thing as a Thorncroft 1.6 afaik.  Look into this.  What engine is it?  What servicing has been done on it recently?  Does it start from cold easily?  Is it excessively smoky?

 

2.  Why don't they know what gearbox it has?  Find out and check the gearbox oil.

 

3.  Find out what the insulation is somehow, even if you have to remove a panel.  Often you can see the insulation if you crawl under the front well deck and have a poke around.  In worst cases, there is no insulation.  If so, do not buy at any price.

 

4.  You must get a survey.  It's highly likely that there's been overplating on the hull.  You need to know that it's been done well.

 

If you get the right answers to these questions and reach a price of around £21-22k, then you could do a lot worse at that price.

[doratheexplorer]

 

Having said all that,. the very first boat I just looked at in your price bracket is better:  https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5142.aspx

[Tracy D'arth]

Chances are its a Thornycroft 80,  a BMC 1.5D, seeing as its 80 something build.

 

Pal of mine bought a 40ft Liverpool built and fitted boat [ not on my advice ] and in the first winter he discovered that the roof was totally devoid of any insulation! It rained inside.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[doratheexplorer]

Just now, Tracy D'arth said:

Chances are its a Thornycroft BMC 1.5D seeing as its 80 something build.

 

Pal of mine bought a 40ft Liverpool built and fitted boat [ not on my advice ] and in the first winter he discovered that the roof was totally devoid of any insulation! It rained inside.

I assumed a 1.5 too but it's concerning that the advert is wrong.  They can't spell diesel either.

 

I have known of liveaboard boats with no insulation too.  In that situation, I wouldn't even take it for free.  Not worth the hassle.

[Tracy D'arth]

4 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Having said all that,. the very first boat I just looked at in your price bracket is better:  https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5142.aspx

There lies the difference between southern and more northern prices, worth 10 days cruising back to the K&A to get a better boat at a sensible price?

[TheBiscuits]

 

I'm sure "Lady Morgana" has been extensively discussed on the forum a few years ago, but I can't find her by name.

 

I have a feeling it was a thread by a bloke who had "done houses" fitting out a "cheap boat" for his daughter to live on at university, even though she didn't want to(!) but I might be mistaking it for another one.

[doratheexplorer]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There lies the difference between southern and more northern prices, worth 10 days cruising back to the K&A to get a better boat at a sensible price?

I thought Lady Morgana was at Great Haywood?

[Athy]

You are correct.

The one on the K&A is mentioned by Waterdog, and is much more civilised-looking but priced accordingly.

[dave moore]

Biscuits, you are right about that, accommodation for his daughter. I was approached to do the lettering but didn’t like the sound of what was wanted, it was a long way away too. I saw it some time later and was underwhelmed.

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, dave moore said:

Biscuits, you are right about that, accommodation for his daughter. I was approached to do the lettering but didn’t like the sound of what was wanted, it was a long way away too. I saw it some time later and was underwhelmed.

 

Thanks for the confirmation Dave.   I kept looking at the pictures and trying to work out where I knew the boat from, and then I remembered some of the tale.

[Nightwatch]

47 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

I'm sure "Lady Morgana" has been extensively discussed on the forum a few years ago, but I can't find her by name.

 

I have a feeling it was a thread by a bloke who had "done houses" fitting out a "cheap boat" for his daughter to live on at university, even though she didn't want to(!) but I might be mistaking it for another one.

I think that was another boat. He has recently sold it again. 6 months or so ago.  But I may be mistaken of course.

 

note to self. Read whole thread before committing an opinion.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Nightwatch

[Richard T]

The first boat is poor and you are unlikely to have enough cabin space for two to live on in a comfortable way. The one suggested in the thread is better but it will still need a survey and then negotiation on price.

[Mad Harold]

Looks to me to be pretty uninspiring and nothing special.

Recommend you keep looking.

As a point in passing,my last narrowboat was built in 1978 and was largely ok.

But I have decided if I buy another narrow boat,it will be no earlier than 2000.

[Tasemu]

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

 

Having said all that,. the very first boat I just looked at in your price bracket is better:  https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/5142.aspx

Is it practical to get a boat transported via road? I have no time to cruise the boat back here with work commitments, also lots of stoppages on the K&A for the foreseeable future.

1 hour ago, doratheexplorer said:

I assumed a 1.5 too but it's concerning that the advert is wrong.  They can't spell diesel either.

 

I have known of liveaboard boats with no insulation too.  In that situation, I wouldn't even take it for free.  Not worth the hassle.

I'll definitely make sure to find out if I do look at it, though from the advice i've seen here, it will be back to the drawing board for me. ?

1 hour ago, Tracy D'arth said:

There lies the difference between southern and more northern prices, worth 10 days cruising back to the K&A to get a better boat at a sensible price?

Unfortunately I have no time to cruise the boat back here with work commitments, also lots of stoppages on the K&A for the foreseeable future.