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Advice please?


jaime66

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A boat like that should have a proper engine. However, by saving that 8 feet of engine room, you have a layout with virtually everything available in a 41 footer. 

Drawbacks if you are living aboard is no solid fuel stove, and cooking using electric, meaning you will have to have engine on every time you make dinner unless there are masses of leisure batteries hidden away somewhere.

The cross bed will mean bed length probably only 5'10" -6' max. This could be got round by making an additional wood panel and extra mattress piece to fit alongside the fixed seat at the steps end, giving you a front /back bed with longer stretch.

 

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An interesting boat. I would want to know how the hydraulic hoses are accessed- if one were to split I wouldn't want to have to dismantle what looks like a nice fit out to replace it. What sort of heating has it? There does look room to fit a small stove in the lounge area. I think maling up the bed everynight if you are living on board would be a pain in the a.... Otherwise have a good critical look at it - does it tick all your boxes?

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21 minutes ago, jaime66 said:

Hi all,

 

Newbie here looking to buy my first canal boat.

Would be grateful if I could pick your knowledgable brains and see what you think of this boat.

 

Any advice or comments would be gratefully received!

 

https://narrowboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/narrow-boats-tugs/600921

Firstly I think it looks like a very nice compact boat.  The original hull maker is a good one and ABNB are a decent broker and have been around for quite a while.  

 

Personally, I would if thinking of actually buying this boat have a survey done.

 

Potential downsides is that accommodation is limited due to size and if doing a lot of cruising putting away each morning and making the bed every night may lose its novelty quickly.  I would look into the charging and battery setup as this is a gas free boat and so inevitably has a high consumption of electricity than others.  Can the batteries be charged sufficiently with a days cruising or are you going to have to sit there with the engine running when moored and want to cook dinner?

 

Otherwise a very nice looking boat with a lot of interesting features making it more unusual especially as a smaller boat.

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21 minutes ago, Richard T said:

An interesting boat. I would want to know how the hydraulic hoses are accessed- if one were to split I wouldn't want to have to dismantle what looks like a nice fit out to replace it. What sort of heating has it? There does look room to fit a small stove in the lounge area. I think maling up the bed everynight if you are living on board would be a pain in the a.... Otherwise have a good critical look at it - does it tick all your boxes?

Are you sure it has hydraulic hoses apart form the gearbox oil cooler hoses. I think the Propgen uses a trolling vale to "slip" the  gearbox to provide sufficient engine revs for adequate electricity generation. I am not sure if its generates AC or DC and then inverts it. They have been around a long time and I am not sure that Beta offer any more.

 

Personally that's enough for me to avoid, let alone electric cooking - even with a Propgen.

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3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Are you sure it has hydraulic hoses apart form the gearbox oil cooler hoses.

 

 

The blurb indicates that it is hydraulic drive " Propgen diesel engine with hydraulic drive to the propeller"

The power has to get from the engine which is under the tug deck to the stern so there must be some hydraulic hoses /pipes. It could be done using solid steel pipes but I would still want to be able to inspect them.

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1 minute ago, Richard T said:

The blurb indicates that it is hydraulic drive " Propgen diesel engine with hydraulic drive to the propeller"

The power has to get from the engine which is under the tug deck to the stern so there must be some hydraulic hoses /pipes. It could be done using solid steel pipes but I would still want to be able to inspect them.

I agree with that. I think we have or had a member with one.

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It certainly has character and if it ticks your boxes I see nothing wrong with it.  You can get a lot of boat for £40k so if you have not already I would suggest you look at as many boats as possible before making any decision.  I looked at about 30 and in hindsight I'm glad I didn't go for any of the ones that interested me early on.

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Beta still do something similar to the propgen, but they call it 'a hybrid drive' - perhaps 'propgen' is registered to someone else?

 

https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/kc-hybrid-propulsion/

 

Methinks it's a boat for cruising and not living on (sure to get a lot of comments for that statement), buth the accomodation is a bit like camping......

 

 

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2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Beta still do something similar to the propgen, but they call it 'a hybrid drive' - perhaps 'propgen' is registered to someone else?

 

https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/kc-hybrid-propulsion/

 

Methinks it's a boat for cruising and not living on (sure to get a lot of comments for that statement), buth the accomodation is a bit like camping......

 

 

I think your right but I  don't see the comment as a bad one.  Many people want boat for holidays or extended cruising rather than to live aboard. Although I think it is rather better and more luxurious  than camping, glamping possibly but even then very nice for all that.

 

Our boat which we have had for some 12 years or so now is not a liveaboard boat (50ft, limited storage) in my view but is great for how we use it.

Edited by churchward
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We've slept in a backcabin and so made up the bed every night for the past ten years, its no big deal, its even rather satisfying to get it all tucked away in the bed box. The electric cooking would concern me much more.

 

I also think it should be a bit longer and have an engine room.

 

.................Dave

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It's always easy to 'rubbish' a boat - especially when the OP doesn't declare his intended use. Nowadays, so many enquires are posted here when it's not unreasonable to assume that the boat's primary use is for permanent accommodation.

If this enquiry is as a hobby boat - then that's great - it'll be lovely.

If it's "one's only or main residence then -

It's a short boat -

  •  the accomodation is quite cramped
  • The front deck is wasted as relaxation space and removes several useful space from what could be usefull accommodation space
  • The dining / kitchen ares are OK
  • The loo / shower is very cramped
  • The rear cabin / bedroom, alothough sufferable as a holiday bedroom - for everyday will be a complete pain. Not only crawling into it is awkward, but the cabin curvature / tumblehome WILL become tiresome (been there done it - for one night!!).

 

I do speak from experience - having hired for many years and all sorts of NBs, with the result that I built a 60 footer...

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2 hours ago, matty40s said:

A boat like that should have a proper engine. However, by saving that 8 feet of engine room, you have a layout with virtually everything available in a 41 footer. 

Drawbacks if you are living aboard is no solid fuel stove, and cooking using electric, meaning you will have to have engine on every time you make dinner unless there are masses of leisure batteries hidden away somewhere.

The cross bed will mean bed length probably only 5'10" -6' max. This could be got round by making an additional wood panel and extra mattress piece to fit alongside the fixed seat at the steps end, giving you a front /back bed with longer stretch.

 

For the Op in case you were wondering a Proper engine is some old knacker pre war or just post war. They are so good nobody makes them anymore. Ask anyone with a proper boat engine how many do their daily car driving in a pre war engined car!! Just in case you didn't understand ?

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I like that boat a lot.It certainly has character and (subject to survey) doesn't seem overpriced.

I would be happier with gas cooking and a solid fuel stove,but if it ticks your boxes,go for it.

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Just now, jaime66 said:

Loving the feedback , we would only be using the boat for short breaks.....

 

Aha Fantastic - all bets are off.

The 'lectric  cooker spec could be a pain - it always seemed to me to be daft to put a 'lectric cooker on a cruising NB - but that's precisely what you're getting.  FWIW we once shared a GU lock with a 'leccy boat (sorry - boat with electric cooking etc) and it was so quiet (that's a plus). The owners Management was doing a washing at the same time. Thus it's not unreasonable...

 

Add Tim - above may be practical, but there's a lot of fun in driving something "ancient". I did as a No:2 car and did a ton down the M4 (before the 70 limit came into force - but the blurry car was a pain to stop hen needed in a hurry...

 

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3 hours ago, OldGoat said:

Beta still do something similar to the propgen, but they call it 'a hybrid drive' - perhaps 'propgen' is registered to someone else?

 

https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/kc-hybrid-propulsion/

 

Methinks it's a boat for cruising and not living on (sure to get a lot of comments for that statement), buth the accomodation is a bit like camping......

 

 

Hybrid drive is completely different!!

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One thing to note - though it's not necessarily a bad thing, but an observation from having spent the past eleven months looking mostly at tugs - it has been on the market, I'm reasonably certain, coming up to a year at least. It might suggest that there's more to it than meets the eye. It could be worth asking a few gentle questions about its history on brokerage to see whether the answers throw up any cautions.

 

On the bright side, ABNB are a fantastic broker. I bought my current boat from them a few months ago, and I have nothing but praise.

Edited by tehmarks
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2 hours ago, OldGoat said:

 

Add Tim - above may be practical, but there's a lot of fun in driving something "ancient". I did as a No:2 car and did a ton down the M4 (before the 70 limit came into force - but the blurry car was a pain to stop hen needed in a hurry...

 

I did a ton plus a bit down several motorways recently, in an old supposedly knackered motor that most would scrap(in fact, it was before I got hold of it). 

Luckily, some countries realise that 70 mph with no traffic is tick over, and allow drivers to use their cars sensibly/properly.

4 minutes ago, tehmarks said:

One thing to note - though it's not necessarily a bad thing, but an observation from having spent the past eleven months looking mostly at tugs - it has been on the market, I'm reasonably certain, coming up to a year at least. It might suggest that there's more to it than meets the eye. It could be worth asking a few gentle questions about its history on brokerage to see whether the answers throw up any cautions.

 

On the bright side, ABNB are a fantastic broker. I bought my current boat from them a few months ago, and I have nothing but praise.

The appalling duck says 3 months. 

If it has been there 12 months then seriously do homework on hull, baseplate, drive systems and battery banks....then looking at paint, blacking etc.

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2 minutes ago, matty40s said:

The appalling duck says 3 months. 

I suspect it's been relisted. I'm nigh on certain (though I could be wrong, of course) that I saw it listed when I first started looking in June last year. ABNB have certainly had it for longer than three months as the copyright notice on their PDF brochure for the boat is 2019.

 

https://www.abnb.co.uk/boat_pages/3462web/3462abnb.php?BoatID=3462

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If the boat has the same generators set up as my boat I would walk away and not buy one again. Mine had a 7kw motor driven off an eight tooth rib belt off the front pully. Basically a ticking time bomb.  Renowned for causing the front pulley to loosen destroying the crankshaft. The engine runs at 1000 rpm or 1500rpm when you press a button. The pram 500 gearbox then slips via the trolling valve. They did not make many of these and I believe they then changed to one driven by the back of the engine gearbox. Picture of bad set up.

827883BC-F70F-471B-BAA8-E0AED4EC38B9.jpeg

Edited by chevron
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2 minutes ago, chevron said:

If the boat has the same generators set up as my boat I would walk away and not buy one again. Mine had a 7kw motor driven off an eight tooth rib belt off the front pully. Basically a ticking time bomb.  Renowned for causing the front pulley destroying the crankshaft. The engine runs at 1000 rpm or 1500rpm when you press a button. The prm 500 gearbox then slips via the trolling valve. They did not make many of these and I believe they then changed to one driven by the back of the engine gearbox. Picture of bad set up.

827883BC-F70F-471B-BAA8-E0AED4EC38B9.jpeg

Now you mention that setup, at least 5 original Stowe Hill boats I know had the same problem, or similar with the Travelpack system fitted to the Beta.

After 20 years however, it should have had the fix installed, especially being at the front end and hydraulic drive fitted. Beta were very good at sorting this one out when it became apparent.

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