Question about water damage on a potential first boat.

[Tasemu]

Hiya, i viewed a boat today as my local marina opened up (by appointment for viewings). I have a boat i really like the look of for my first boat. 48ft narrowboat built 1995. There was one glaring issue I found with it and I want to know how bad this is. I noticed the boat listing slightly to one side, upon inspection i found that some of the floorboards were bowing slightly towards the stern. I found an inspection hatch under one of the rear boards and found that it was full to the brim with water. The marine ply was soaked and it was causing the floorboards on top of it to bow. I also noticed this was causing mushrooms to grow where the wall meets the wall. When i showed the marina guy he said this was definitely something the owner needed to fix, he said he would have to fix it, or lower the price accordingly to have the work done.

 

He said it could be done by replacing the marine ply and the wood floor panels, and by painting the inside of the cabin bilge and putting some absorbent mats in there for the future.

 

My question though, is this something that I should be running away from? the price for the boat is quite appealing, though not dirt cheap. If the price was negotiated, is the boat a possibility? or do I run?

 

Thanks for any and all advice.

[Skeg]

11 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Hiya, i viewed a boat today as my local marina opened up (by appointment for viewings). I have a boat i really like the look of for my first boat. 48ft narrowboat built 1995. There was one glaring issue I found with it and I want to know how bad this is. I noticed the boat listing slightly to one side, upon inspection i found that some of the floorboards were bowing slightly towards the stern. I found an inspection hatch under one of the rear boards and found that it was full to the brim with water. The marine ply was soaked and it was causing the floorboards on top of it to bow. I also noticed this was causing mushrooms to grow where the wall meets the wall. When i showed the marina guy he said this was definitely something the owner needed to fix, he said he would have to fix it, or lower the price accordingly to have the work done.

 

He said it could be done by replacing the marine ply and the wood floor panels, and by painting the inside of the cabin bilge and putting some absorbent mats in there for the future.

 

My question though, is this something that I should be running away from? the price for the boat is quite appealing, though not dirt cheap. If the price was negotiated, is the boat a possibility? or do I run?

 

Thanks for any and all advice.

It really does depend on the reason for the water being there. Possibilities are blocked drainage channels, not necessarily a big deal, or a breached hull which is much more problematic. Without knowing the cause it’s impossible to give sensible advice.

[Tasemu]

1 minute ago, Skeg said:

It really does depend on the reason for the water being there. Possibilities are blocked drainage channels, not necessarily a big deal, or a breached hull which is much more problematic. Without knowing the cause it’s impossible to give sensible advice.

Hopefully can rule out a hull breach as the boat was blacked recently. Or maybe not, dunno. The marina guy is going to pump it all out and try to find the cause this week. Assuming its not a hull issue, what is your opinion?

[matty40s]

Probably more like a blocked "lunchbox" style shower pump, these can have failed for ages before someone discovers the wet back end.

[TheBiscuits]

Depends on your DIY skills and/or improvements budget.

 

I'd rather get cash off the purchase price and fix it myself so I know it's done correctly rather than get some handyman to throw down a bit of new plywood and scrape the mushrooms off with a shovel.  If the floor is spongy and there is already wet rot present you need to be quite wary of it if you are not a capable DIYer. 

 

Bear in mind that if you start lifting floors in most boats you will have to start by removing beds, bulkheads, lockers etc, and it is nigh on impossible to live on the boat while you are doing this.

 

It could be as simple as a leaky window causing it, or as others have said could be more of a problem.  You might be able to just dry it out with a couple of big electric fans and some ducting (after pumping nearly all the water out, obviously!) but if it's already mouldy and rotten it may be too late for this boat.

 

Add a bit:

 

It is fixable, but depending how much you have to spend on it to make it right might mean the boat isn't the right one for you.  I'd quite happily buy a boat that had been sunk and recovered and sort it out, but by then you might be looking at nearly a full refit, so the price needs to be very keen and the boat has to be worth the effort in the first place.

[PD1964]

12 minutes ago, Skeg said:

It really does depend on the reason for the water being there. Possibilities are blocked drainage channels, not necessarily a big deal, or a breached hull which is much more problematic. Without knowing the cause it’s impossible to give sensible advice.

More likely leaking water pump or part of the water system over a period of time. The problem will be how much of the floor is damaged and how much will have to be replaced if any, you could end up replacing the whole floor if rotten, which gets costly if you have to remove fixed fittings and make good afterwards.

  

[The Gravy Boater]

The real question is are you prepared to deal with the work yourself, or get someone to do it in the hope of negotiating a much lower price?  Or you could suggest the owner needs to fix it before he has any hope of selling, saying you're interested but not commiting to any deposit or survey until the work is done.   There are currently 1004 narrowboats on the Duck and it's a buyer's market.  I don't know your budget but you can almost certainly do better.

 

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Hopefully can rule out a hull breach as the boat was blacked recently.

The two are not necessarily aligned.

 

A few years ago a boat was lifted for blacking, job done and it was re-launched - next morning it was under water. It is believed that the removal of the old blacking created pin-holes which allowed the boat to sink overnight.

 

Loads of discussion at the time as the owner tried to take the marina to court.

 

Readers might be interested to know that even with my own vigilant hull maintenance regime which was completed bi-annually at a local marina, our boat was actually seriously damaged while in the care of that marina, and during the routine maintenance of grit blasting and blacking. They had been given the task of completing this maintenance year on year without my direct supervision, and it later transpired that they had not warned me of the need for further investigation into the effects of galvanic corrosion that on the last occasion resulted in the hull being holed, and the boat being sunk within their marina and while in their care. Further issues with insurance, (or the lack of cover that transpired only after a claim was made) and the marina's refusal to provide their own insurer's details until a settlement on my own had taken place, resulted in the loss of our boat. Never never trust any third party to do work to a suitable standard. They must always be supervised to your own satisfaction or better still - DIY.

The original blog appears to have been deleted but here is the link to the forum discussions :

 

 

[ditchcrawler]

I find it hard to believe that a leaking shower or pipe could end up with enough water in the bilge to give the boat a list and soak the floor without the owner noticing 

[Machpoint005]

As the Gravy Boater says, there are a thousand boats listed on Apolloduck at the moment.

 

Walk away.

 

 

Don't make something your problem when you do not have to.

[The Gravy Boater]

52 minutes ago, Tasemu said:

Hiya, i viewed a boat today as my local marina

How much of your interest is driven by this?  I can only speak as someone with limited (recent) experience, but... if you are on a budget you will almost certainly have a better experience up t'north, both in terms of value and honesty.  This is assuming you are happy to move a boat and don't need something near Bristol from the start.

[Rickent]

27 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it hard to believe that a leaking shower or pipe could end up with enough water in the bilge to give the boat a list and soak the floor without the owner noticing 

The owner may have noticed and chose not to address it.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Rickent said:

The owner may have noticed and chose not to address it.

All the more reason to walk away.  What else hasn't the owner bothered with?

[Rickent]

12 minutes ago, WotEver said:

All the more reason to walk away.  What else hasn't the owner bothered with?

Absolutely 100%.

[Tasemu]

36 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

How much of your interest is driven by this?  I can only speak as someone with limited (recent) experience, but... if you are on a budget you will almost certainly have a better experience up t'north, both in terms of value and honesty.  This is assuming you are happy to move a boat and don't need something near Bristol from the start.

Quite a lot unfortunately, i don't have the time to move a boat far at all with my job commitments.

45 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

As the Gravy Boater says, there are a thousand boats listed on Apolloduck at the moment.

 

Walk away.

 

 

Don't make something your problem when you do not have to.

Fair play, was hoping it might not be a deal breaker if I negotiated the price to fix it.

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

Depends on your DIY skills and/or improvements budget.

 

I'd rather get cash off the purchase price and fix it myself so I know it's done correctly rather than get some handyman to throw down a bit of new plywood and scrape the mushrooms off with a shovel.  If the floor is spongy and there is already wet rot present you need to be quite wary of it if you are not a capable DIYer. 

 

Bear in mind that if you start lifting floors in most boats you will have to start by removing beds, bulkheads, lockers etc, and it is nigh on impossible to live on the boat while you are doing this.

 

It could be as simple as a leaky window causing it, or as others have said could be more of a problem.  You might be able to just dry it out with a couple of big electric fans and some ducting (after pumping nearly all the water out, obviously!) but if it's already mouldy and rotten it may be too late for this boat.

 

Add a bit:

 

It is fixable, but depending how much you have to spend on it to make it right might mean the boat isn't the right one for you.  I'd quite happily buy a boat that had been sunk and recovered and sort it out, but by then you might be looking at nearly a full refit, so the price needs to be very keen and the boat has to be worth the effort in the first place.

Thanks for the advice, it looks to be localised to the stern, but i'll find out more on monday.

48 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it hard to believe that a leaking shower or pipe could end up with enough water in the bilge to give the boat a list and soak the floor without the owner noticing 

The marina guy says there's 2 types of people, those to drop my to maintain their boat and those who leave it there and wait for the money, but will take less. I believe him to be the second type.

57 minutes ago, The Gravy Boater said:

The real question is are you prepared to deal with the work yourself, or get someone to do it in the hope of negotiating a much lower price?  Or you could suggest the owner needs to fix it before he has any hope of selling, saying you're interested but not commiting to any deposit or survey until the work is done.   There are currently 1004 narrowboats on the Duck and it's a buyer's market.  I don't know your budget but you can almost certainly do better.

 

Thanks for the advice, i'm looking locally due to my not being able to move the boat any large distance to bring it back home. I don't have the time nor skill to do the work myself so am hoping to either get him to fix it before i offer, or to significantly lower his offer to offset the materials and labor.

Edited May 18, 2020 by Tasemu

[The Gravy Boater]

I think you broke the forum as it wont let me quote this:

 

"The marina guy says there's 2 types of people, those to drop my to maintain their boat and those who leave it there and wait for the money, but will take less. I believe him to be the second type. "

 

He's not wrong. With the 30 odd boats I looked at there were some in a sorry old condition and it really would not have taken that much effort or expense to present them nicely. Particularly in winter when you need to put measures in place to stop your unoccupied boat rotting.

 

Are you looking to liveaboard your boat? Sorry if I've missed this in earlier posts.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 hours ago, Tasemu said:

Fair play, was hoping it might not be a deal breaker if I negotiated the price to fix it.

But, not knowing what is the problem, (would a survey find it ?) then how do you know how much to negotiate off the price to cover the work :

 

1) Its a split hose on the shower drain - cost to repair £5 ?

2) Its leaky window frames - cost to repair £100 ?

3) Its a series of pin holes in the hull allowing a slow ingress of water - cost to repair £10,000 ?

 

Or, somewhere in between.

[Tasemu]

8 hours ago, The Gravy Boater said:

I think you broke the forum as it wont let me quote this:

 

"The marina guy says there's 2 types of people, those to drop my to maintain their boat and those who leave it there and wait for the money, but will take less. I believe him to be the second type. "

 

He's not wrong. With the 30 odd boats I looked at there were some in a sorry old condition and it really would not have taken that much effort or expense to present them nicely. Particularly in winter when you need to put measures in place to stop your unoccupied boat rotting.

 

Are you looking to liveaboard your boat? Sorry if I've missed this in earlier posts.

Live-aboard.

32 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

But, not knowing what is the problem, (would a survey find it ?) then how do you know how much to negotiate off the price to cover the work :

 

1) Its a split hose on the shower drain - cost to repair £5 ?

2) Its leaky window frames - cost to repair £100 ?

3) Its a series of pin holes in the hull allowing a slow ingress of water - cost to repair £10,000 ?

 

Or, somewhere in between.

Good point. The marina said they will track down the source and give me a quote to negotiate the price down. But if it is something like pin holes i'll walk away. Does that seem like a decent plan?

[mrsmelly]

10 hours ago, Tasemu said:

Hiya, i viewed a boat today as my local marina opened up (by appointment for viewings). I have a boat i really like the look of for my first boat. 48ft narrowboat built 1995. There was one glaring issue I found with it and I want to know how bad this is. I noticed the boat listing slightly to one side, upon inspection i found that some of the floorboards were bowing slightly towards the stern. I found an inspection hatch under one of the rear boards and found that it was full to the brim with water. The marine ply was soaked and it was causing the floorboards on top of it to bow. I also noticed this was causing mushrooms to grow where the wall meets the wall. When i showed the marina guy he said this was definitely something the owner needed to fix, he said he would have to fix it, or lower the price accordingly to have the work done.

 

He said it could be done by replacing the marine ply and the wood floor panels, and by painting the inside of the cabin bilge and putting some absorbent mats in there for the future.

 

My question though, is this something that I should be running away from? the price for the boat is quite appealing, though not dirt cheap. If the price was negotiated, is the boat a possibility? or do I run?

 

Thanks for any and all advice.

There are two thousand Ford mondeos for sale and the one that is a little cheaper,  has dents on half the panels and a slight knocking noise on the engine that you cannot quite suss out? It is a couple of grand cheaper than the others, would you buy it?

[Tasemu]

2 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There are two thousand Ford mondeos for sale and the one that is a little cheaper,  has dents on half the panels and a slight knocking noise on the engine that you cannot quite suss out? It is a couple of grand cheaper than the others, would you buy it?

I get the logic here, however it could be a fine boat that has had a shower leak. My main worry is if the shower leak and under-floor flooding is a deal-breaker in itself. I definitely understand the broader logic of buying a boat fit for purpose or cheaping out.

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Tasemu said:

I get the logic here, however it could be a fine boat that has had a shower leak. My main worry is if the shower leak and under-floor flooding is a deal-breaker in itself. I definitely understand the broader logic of buying a boat fit for purpose or cheaping out.

The thing is that if you can already see damaged, warped soft boards and lining I know for a fact there will be lots more that you cannot see. The work involved in basicaly stripping and refiting is not inconsiderable. It does depend on how much cheaper but as a very quick guestimate if its normaly valued at 25 k I wouldnt touch it unless I got at least ten k off, probably more. As others have said you are just buying other peoples problems and its obviously been totaly neglected for a long time so what is everything else like?? ££££££££££

[Tasemu]

1 minute ago, mrsmelly said:

The thing is that if you can already see damaged, warped soft boards and lining I know for a fact there will be lots more that you cannot see. The work involved in basicaly stripping and refiting is not inconsiderable. It does depend on how much cheaper but as a very quick guestimate if its normaly valued at 25 k I wouldnt touch it unless I got at least ten k off, probably more. As others have said you are just buying other peoples problems and its obviously been totaly neglected for a long time so what is everything else like?? ££££££££££

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for. If he brings a very significant discount on price  (roughly what you suggest), i will consider bringing in a surveyor to check everything else. Otherwise i'll walk.

[robtheplod]

This is just me, but what is the engine bay like?

[haggis]

I think finding the source of the leak will be the easy bit. You say that the floor boards are distorted having been wet and that doesn't happen overnight. It sounds as if the problem has been there for years. You are probably looking at replacing the whole floor (or a good length of it) and as everything is fitted on top of the floor, it will mean dismantling most of the inside of the boat and rebuilding it. As others have said, a very expensive job. 

I would walk away!

 

haggis

 

[LEO]

10 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

I find it hard to believe that a leaking shower or pipe could end up with enough water in the bilge to give the boat a list and soak the floor without the owner noticing 

I found a leaking water pump caused a slight list to my boat very quickly, tracing the problem took a while and bear in mind many marinas have been locked down with owners unable to visit boats for a while, marina staff keeping an eye on boats. Access to the marina near me has been restricted to residential boaters for some weeks, this restriction only being lifted last weekend......