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Thanks for the heads up. Been weighing up different options but an Otter 31 does seem to tick most boxes, providing it hasn't been added to/chaged so much that it exceeds the trailer weight limit.

Edited by Philip
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16 minutes ago, Philip said:

Thanks for the heads up. Been weighing up different options but an Otter 31 does seem to tick most boxes, providing it hasn't been added to/chaged so much that it exceeds the trailer weight limit.

I noticed it has a stove.

 

Which I think was one thing you were after. It is gas fired central heating though.

 

All said, I bet it isnt for sale for very long 

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19 hours ago, Philip said:

Thanks for the heads up. Been weighing up different options but an Otter 31 does seem to tick most boxes, providing it hasn't been added to/chaged so much that it exceeds the trailer weight limit.

I suspect it will.

 

Don't be taken in by the very optimistic Sea Otter specs or the sales talk from brokers - these boats are way heavier in real life, even the small ones.  A 31 footer will be well over 4 tons so unless you have a serious towing vehicle you'll almost certainly be over the limit.

 

I have seen photos of these boats on a trailer towed by a Defender or similar, almost certainly illegally.  Sea Otter used to recommend using their own transport services for the longer boats.

 

Pleading ignorance won't work either, a friend of mine got prosecuted for overloading his van - three offences - and was handed a four figure fine.

 

 

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When they first started doing 30/31 footers (we were offered the first one) they had a tri-axle trailer built and  therir Discovery had an uprated braking system fitted by a specialist converter in London.  I think it included an exhauster and servo system, but never had a close look.  The outfi exceded 3.5 tonnes and had a tachograph fitted.  Later they used a Toyota Land Cruiser on the work.

 

They used that set-up to move our 26 footer and the outfit flew along.

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1 hour ago, Neil2 said:

I suspect it will.

 

Don't be taken in by the very optimistic Sea Otter specs or the sales talk from brokers - these boats are way heavier in real life, even the small ones.  A 31 footer will be well over 4 tons so unless you have a serious towing vehicle you'll almost certainly be over the limit.

 

I have seen photos of these boats on a trailer towed by a Defender or similar, almost certainly illegally.  Sea Otter used to recommend using their own transport services for the longer boats.

 

Pleading ignorance won't work either, a friend of mine got prosecuted for overloading his van - three offences - and was handed a four figure fine.

 

 

That's a shame. I'm guessing the '26 is ok for weight but, whilst I'm looking at short boats, that seems a little too small. I'm still quite taken with the Otter and the nice open and airy layout they have, plus being lightweight is handy for locks and mooring up etc. There a 41 footer built 2007 on Apollo Duck too, says £45,000 - is that good value or a bit 'steep' for that type of boat, length and age?

Edited by Philip
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17 minutes ago, Philip said:

That's a shame. I'm guessing the '26 is ok for weight but, whilst I'm looking at short boats, that seems a little too small. I'm still quite taken with the Otter and the nice open and airy layout they have, plus being lightweight is handy for locks and mooring up etc. There a 41 footer built 2007 on Apollo Duck too, says £45,000 - is that good value or a bit 'steep' for that type of boat, length and age?

I'd be looking for £1000 peer foot if selling.  £45000 looks like wriggle room to me.

 

We got just over the £1000 ratio when we sold.

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2 hours ago, Philip said:

That's a shame. I'm guessing the '26 is ok for weight but, whilst I'm looking at short boats, that seems a little too small. I'm still quite taken with the Otter and the nice open and airy layout they have, plus being lightweight is handy for locks and mooring up etc. There a 41 footer built 2007 on Apollo Duck too, says £45,000 - is that good value or a bit 'steep' for that type of boat, length and age?

I wouldn't assume the shorter boats are ok to tow either, I do remember a club member taking his 26 foot rig to a weighbridge and being quite shocked how far over the limit he was.  I think Sea Otter made a mistake in trying to sell the trailable aspect of the boats.   The appeal is low maintenance, with the bonus of less weight and a shallower draught than a comparable steel boat.

 

£45k for a 41 footer is probably about right especially if it has covers fore and aft.  Age isn't really an issue with these boats unless it's a red one in which case the paint will be  badly faded, but even then you don't really worry too much about the paint on these boats.  You would have a good old look and find a few things to knock the price down a bit.   As the owner of one I am biased but I think the 41 foot version of these boats is the best designed, you get a fixed bed, a dinette, and a clever second bed in the lounge, plus a decent sized cruiser stern deck as it's squared off.  

 

Let me know if you are seriously interested in that boat, I may even know it.

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The shorter Sea Otters can have a problem with condensation in the winter months.  If you are looking for a year round boat, aluminium may not be the most suitable material.  Perhaps having a solid fuel stove would help.  Having to literally make the bed every night can become quite boring.  Good luck with your search.

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3 minutes ago, Lady C said:

The shorter Sea Otters can have a problem with condensation in the winter months.  If you are looking for a year round boat, aluminium may not be the most suitable material.  Perhaps having a solid fuel stove would help.  Having to literally make the bed every night can become quite boring.  Good luck with your search.

Having a short Sea Otter I wasn't aware of the condensation problem in winter months but we have only had the boat for about 20 years so we may not have found out about it yet ? .  Is it because of your perception of winter condensation that you say that aluminium is not the best material for  a year round boat or is there another reason? I agree that if being used in  winter a better form of heating than a gas blown air system is essential. 

 

haggis

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49 minutes ago, Lady C said:

The shorter Sea Otters can have a problem with condensation in the winter months.  If you are looking for a year round boat, aluminium may not be the most suitable material.  Perhaps having a solid fuel stove would help.  Having to literally make the bed every night can become quite boring.  Good luck with your search.

Making the bed up is not an issue exclusive to short Sea Otters. Invariably most short boats will have this issue as there normally just isnt the room for a fixed double bed and lounge seating.

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1 hour ago, Lady C said:

The shorter Sea Otters can have a problem with condensation in the winter months.  If you are looking for a year round boat, aluminium may not be the most suitable material.  Perhaps having a solid fuel stove would help.  Having to literally make the bed every night can become quite boring.  Good luck with your search.

Thanks. Are we talking GRP level of insulation?

24 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I would wonder why a livaboard would need a trailable boat

 

our 18.5 foot boat has semi  permanent  bed.

Not a livaboard or planning to be. Just be good to have something I can use robustly but with a bit more comfort than my current GRP. A fast and lightweight boat like the Otter seems the best all things considered, plus the reduced maintenance and durability over steel.

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46 minutes ago, rasputin said:

I would wonder why a livaboard would need a trailable boat

 

our 18.5 foot boat has semi  permanent  bed.

Hence I was very very very careful to say 'most' as it is normal for there to be exceptions.

 

?

 

 

Edited by The Happy Nomad
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3 hours ago, Lady C said:

The shorter Sea Otters can have a problem with condensation in the winter months.  If you are looking for a year round boat, aluminium may not be the most suitable material.  Perhaps having a solid fuel stove would help.  Having to literally make the bed every night can become quite boring.  Good luck with your search.

 

2 hours ago, haggis said:

Having a short Sea Otter I wasn't aware of the condensation problem in winter months but we have only had the boat for about 20 years so we may not have found out about it yet ? .  Is it because of your perception of winter condensation that you say that aluminium is not the best material for  a year round boat or is there another reason? I agree that if being used in  winter a better form of heating than a gas blown air system is essential. 

 

haggis

FWIW we came down the Watford locks last year with a guy on a 31 footer who lives on it all year round and has done for several years.  

 

I think condensation is potentially more of an issue with an aluminium boat, but it wouldn't dissuade me from choosing a Sea Otter as a liveaboard.  Quite the reverse.  If you live on a boat you really do have to embrace the long term expenses which includes such costly things as hull protection and cabin painting.  The canal network is full of shabby rusting narrowboats where the owners haven't appreciated this and their boat has turned into a restoration project as a result.  All a Sea Otter needs is a good clean every couple of weeks.

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23 hours ago, Grebe said:

When they first started doing 30/31 footers (we were offered the first one) they had a tri-axle trailer built and  therir Discovery had an uprated braking system fitted by a specialist converter in London.  I think it included an exhauster and servo system, but never had a close look.  The outfi exceded 3.5 tonnes and had a tachograph fitted.  Later they used a Toyota Land Cruiser on the work.

 

They used that set-up to move our 26 footer and the outfit flew along.

 

Probably had an air brake conversion. Land Rover Defenders, Discoverys and Range Rovers can tow 400kg legally when fitted with an air brake compressor and the trailer is fitted with air brakes.

 

When I worked for BT they had a couple of Defenders with the air brake conversion to tow 4000kg mobile generator trailers. They were much more stable under heavy braking than when towing a 3500kg trailer on overrun brakes.

Edited by cuthound
To remove a letter masquerading as a space
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The other boat I've liked for the last few years is the Aintree 'Beetle' class. I'm guessing condensation would be less of an issue with these than with the Otters, but one thing I'm not keen on with all four lengths is the rather microbe back deck. I do like a 'sociable' back deck and don't fancy the idea of the stern rail as the only thing to sit on! Not making any decisions just yet, give it a few months and see how things go.

 

Are ex hire boats a good idea? I know the engine will have seen a lot of use but I would think you could count on the hull and internal layout being in pretty good condition if buying from the hire company?

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42 minutes ago, Philip said:

The other boat I've liked for the last few years is the Aintree 'Beetle' class. I'm guessing condensation would be less of an issue with these than with the Otters, but one thing I'm not keen on with all four lengths is the rather microbe back deck. I do like a 'sociable' back deck and don't fancy the idea of the stern rail as the only thing to sit on! Not making any decisions just yet, give it a few months and see how things go.

 

Are ex hire boats a good idea? I know the engine will have seen a lot of use but I would think you could count on the hull and internal layout being in pretty good condition if buying from the hire company?

Hire boats rarely have stoves, they also tend to be quite basic inside but durable.

 

The extent of the maintenance very much depends on the company. Valley cruisers were nice hire boats and they had some up for sale recently, on ABNB I think.

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2 hours ago, Philip said:

The other boat I've liked for the last few years is the Aintree 'Beetle' class. I'm guessing condensation would be less of an issue with these than with the Otters, but one thing I'm not keen on with all four lengths is the rather microbe back deck. I do like a 'sociable' back deck and don't fancy the idea of the stern rail as the only thing to sit on! Not making any decisions just yet, give it a few months and see how things go.

 

Are ex hire boats a good idea? I know the engine will have seen a lot of use but I would think you could count on the hull and internal layout being in pretty good condition if buying from the hire company?

Black Prince have been known to sell boat with quite new engines in them

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I would certainly keep your powder dry - if this lockdown goes on much longer there could be quite a few hire boats coming up for sale later this year...

Edited by Neil2
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