Can we cruise again?

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, churchward said:

The issue really is limiting activity and as been pointed out keeping the infection rate low (R number) this means restricting people doing things.  It is natural for people looking to get out and about whenever they see a new rule relaxing those restrictions to want to add on and find a way to do what they wish to do. Canoeing may seem very like boating in a narrowboat but there are subtle differences and if you allow both that mean more people milling about travelling etc.  If every argument of "if they can do that then I an do this" is allowed pretty soon it means everyone can do anything. We need to keep the spread of the virus to a minimum level or a lot of people will die through our own selfishness.

 

I live only a couple of miles from Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake) a very nice place to go sailing. I have my boat at home I could just hitch up and go sailing and with little chance of meeting up with anyone and I cold even tag it onto a shopping trip into the town.  That is not permitted at the moment and so I do not do it not because I could not do this reasonably safely but because we need to be good citizens and follow the rules and guidelines and do our bit not just to keep me safe but to keep everyone around us safe.

 

The advice and guidance from CRT and other navigation authorities is clear, just follow it.  I do not think it will be long (assuming we do not start to get a 2nd spike in cases) before things are more open and navigation possible.  

 

Drove to Bala Lake last year. Good drive, worth the visit. Went into the antiques shop, near/in the chapel in the village - to book myself in. 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

7 minutes ago, churchward said:

We need to keep the spread of the virus to a minimum level or a lot of people will die through our own selfishness.

 

This. Absolutely.

45 minutes ago, Athy said:

As this isn't in the Politics section of the forum, could we please avoid political comment, especially of a contentious nature?

 

It isn't really a political remark to observe that the government has, for the last four months, failed to keep the public fully informed.

 

[Athy]

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

 

 

It isn't really a political remark to observe that the government has, for the last four months, failed to keep the public fully informed.

 

Your post to which I was referring was indeed political and contentious.

[bizzard]

I was in Aldi at 8am this morning and I saw bloke playing with his smart phone, he suddenly sneezed and snot went all over it, he then wiped it on his pants and wiped his nose on his coat sleeve.  I retreated and monitored his movements keeping a 50 yards distance from him. Couldn't wait to get out of there, forgot tea bags.

Edited May 13, 2020 by bizzard

[Higgs]

6 minutes ago, bizzard said:

I was in Aldi at 8am this morning and I saw bloke playing with his smart phone, he suddenly sneezed and snot went all over it, he then wiped it on his pants and wiped his nose on his coat sleeve.  I retreated and monitored his movements keeping a 50 yards distance from him. Couldn't wait to get out of there, forgot tea bags.

 

I'll make a note of that: No teabags, won't be visiting bizzard. ?

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Higgs

[rustynewbery]

Castle Marinas for example have reopened today so I expect a glut of eager "check-my-boats" to infest the car parks and layby's. I won't be one of them! Similarly garden centres overrun and congestion getting back to normal if scenes on the M25 show.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

I'll make a note of that: No teabags, won't be visiting bizzard. ?

 

 

Tut tut - social distancing and all that!!

Edited May 13, 2020 by Athy
To remove political comment.

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, rustynewbery said:

Tut tut - social distancing and all that!!

 

Yes, but no tea! That's serious. ?

 

 

 

[Machpoint005]

15 minutes ago, Athy said:

Your post to which I was referring was indeed political and contentious.

 

I'm not picking an argument here. If we consider a dictionary definition of political:

 

political

/pəˈlɪtɪk(ə)l/

adjective

adjective: political

1. 1.

   relating to the government or public affairs of a country.

...then there are very few topics that are completely devoid of political content. You were right that my remark was indeed political in that sense.

 

As regards contentious, I suggest that without such content there would be no forum at all, but in this particular case, do you doubt the factual accuracy of "failed to keep the public fully informed"? My emphasis was deliberate.

 

I fully appreciate that a moderator's decision is final (and so it should be) but I think you may perhaps have been a little over-zealous here. 

 

 

[Traveller]

1 hour ago, WotEver said:

I'm confident that the thought processes in the various SAGE and COBRA meetings were far more granular than that, but do they truly need to spell out every scenario for every conceivable circumstance in a 10,000 page document every time they issue new advice?  Or should they credit the population with some common sense?

We can agree to disagree on that. Common sense is always based in the information before us and it has been muddled. 

[Athy]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

I'm not picking an argument here. If we consider a dictionary definition of political:

 

political

/pəˈlɪtɪk(ə)l/

adjective

adjective: political

1. 1.

   relating to the government or public affairs of a country.

...then there are very few topics that are completely devoid of political content. You were right that my remark was indeed political in that sense.

 

As regards contentious, I suggest that without such content there would be no forum at all, but in this particular case, do you doubt the factual accuracy of "failed to keep the public fully informed"? My emphasis was deliberate.

 

I fully appreciate that a moderator's decision is final (and so it should be) but I think you may perhaps have been a little over-zealous here. 

 

 

Thanks for this reasonable reply.  No, you don't come over as trying to pick an argument.

 

I suggest that a thread such as this must, as you imply, include some political content: "The government has announced the following measures", which is factual. But it should not be a vehicle for potentially inflammatory political comment - which, in describing the government as "weak", is what you were making. Before you know it, bods are jumping in from both sides making party political statements and accusations, and bang! goes the thread. 

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, Traveller said:

We can agree to disagree on that. Common sense is always based in the information before us and it has been muddled. 

 

How does any information help, if the common sense isn't there to receive that information. If common sense is there, it should help to fill in the gaps that there may be in the information. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Traveller]

6 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

How does any information help, if the common sense isn't there to receive that information. If common sense is there, it should help to fill in the gaps that there may be in the information. 

 

 

 

 

 

How can common sense be applied safely to what has oft been very wooly information. Even Ministers have had problems interpreting it correctly at times. Easy to say you got that wrong, where is your common sense. Typical get-out clause in my books.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Traveller

[STIG]

View this email in your browser Coronavirus & boating update, 13 May 2020 Hello Paul, When we were in touch yesterday we said that, along with other navigation authorities, we would review when navigation might re-open in light of the new Government advice. Government have issued clarification this morning, 13 May. We are now able to set out our approach to opening our navigation to private boating in England. Please remember that social distancing continues to be maintained, with only members of your household able to go aboard your boat until further notice. From today, Weds 13 May 2020 You may undertake short boating trips only from today – avoiding use of locks and any staff-operated structures if possible – providing, as per current government guidance, you do not stay away from home overnight and return to your home mooring (where you have one). From Saturday, 23 May: Mooring exemptions will come to an end and our guidance for continuous cruisers comes back in to force. This doesn’t mean that every boat without a home mooring needs to move on this day, just that we’d expect you to move off your current mooring within 14 days (i.e. by 6 June).  If you are in a high-risk group, and need to continue to shield or self-isolate, then special arrangements can be agreed with your licence support officer if you haven’t already told us. From Monday, 1 June: On this date, we anticipate that our navigations will re-open in full, subject to some exceptions*, and you will be able to undertake longer journeys. According to current Government guidance, those who do not liveaboard should not stay overnight. We will seek further clarification as to whether overnight stays will be permissible once full navigation resumes. *Please bear in mind that it will take time to get the entire network fully operational, and booking for some passages and services will be required. Some sections may be closed for a further period. Our website will be updated with the details closer to the time. Wales: If you or your boat is on a Welsh canal please follow the latest advice which may be different from above. Please stay safe and stay alert at all times. Damian Kemp, Boating communications manager, Canal & River Trust Copyright © 2020 Canal & River Trust, All rights reserved.  You are receiving this email because you either opted in at our website or purchased a boat licence from us.  Our mailing address is:  Canal & River Trust Fearns Wharf Neptune Street Leeds, West Yorkshire  LS9 8PB United Kingdom Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list

[Higgs]

17 minutes ago, Traveller said:

How can common sense be applied safely to what has oft been very wooly information. Even Ministers have had problems interpreting it correctly at times. Easy to say you got that wrong, where is your common sense. Typical get-out clause in my books.

 

The appreciation of the situation, whatever that may be, has to take into consideration that there may be no way of effecting the 'correct' behaviour in us all. We are not exposed to all the pressures of government. Ministers all have their' own definitions of what is the right course of action. How possible do you think it is to convey the correct information. Simple terms are for the general public, on the practical side of getting any information across. 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Higgs

[Phil.]

12 minutes ago, Traveller said:

How can common sense be applied safely to what has oft been very wooly information. Even Ministers have had problems interpreting it correctly at times. Easy to say you got that wrong, where is your common sense. Typical get-out clause in my books.

I’m sure if you need help with some common sense, you only have to ask. What is it in the new advice that is causing you some difficulty.

[doratheexplorer]

16 minutes ago, STIG said:

View this email in your browser Coronavirus & boating update, 13 May 2020 Hello Paul, When we were in touch yesterday we said that, along with other navigation authorities, we would review when navigation might re-open in light of the new Government advice. Government have issued clarification this morning, 13 May. We are now able to set out our approach to opening our navigation to private boating in England. Please remember that social distancing continues to be maintained, with only members of your household able to go aboard your boat until further notice. From today, Weds 13 May 2020 You may undertake short boating trips only from today – avoiding use of locks and any staff-operated structures if possible – providing, as per current government guidance, you do not stay away from home overnight and return to your home mooring (where you have one). From Saturday, 23 May: Mooring exemptions will come to an end and our guidance for continuous cruisers comes back in to force. This doesn’t mean that every boat without a home mooring needs to move on this day, just that we’d expect you to move off your current mooring within 14 days (i.e. by 6 June).  If you are in a high-risk group, and need to continue to shield or self-isolate, then special arrangements can be agreed with your licence support officer if you haven’t already told us. From Monday, 1 June: On this date, we anticipate that our navigations will re-open in full, subject to some exceptions*, and you will be able to undertake longer journeys. According to current Government guidance, those who do not liveaboard should not stay overnight. We will seek further clarification as to whether overnight stays will be permissible once full navigation resumes. *Please bear in mind that it will take time to get the entire network fully operational, and booking for some passages and services will be required. Some sections may be closed for a further period. Our website will be updated with the details closer to the time. Wales: If you or your boat is on a Welsh canal please follow the latest advice which may be different from above. Please stay safe and stay alert at all times. Damian Kemp, Boating communications manager, Canal & River Trust Copyright © 2020 Canal & River Trust, All rights reserved.  You are receiving this email because you either opted in at our website or purchased a boat licence from us.  Our mailing address is:  Canal & River Trust Fearns Wharf Neptune Street Leeds, West Yorkshire  LS9 8PB United Kingdom Add us to your address book Want to change how you receive these emails? You can update your preferences or unsubscribe from this list

See post #373

[sirweste]

So for CCers, I'm allowed to move from the 23rd, but shouldn't touch any structures i.e. can't move through locks for pleasure. 

On the 23rd the 14 timer starts, so I can wait until the 1st of June, when they anticipate that they will reopen the navigation fully, i.e. implies that travelling through locks for pleasure is OK from the 1st June.

However should it not be fully open or instructions change I assume the movement rule will be waived again...?

[Rickent]

Boats are moving now, 4 past here this morning and 2 moored up behind me on the visitor moorings.

[WotEver]

42 minutes ago, Traveller said:

We can agree to disagree on that. Common sense is always based in the information before us and it has been muddled. 

Let me know which bit of the advice you find confusing and I'll explain it to you.  I don't find it in the least bit muddled.

[Traveller]

Just now, WotEver said:

Let me know which bit of the advice you find confusing and I'll explain it to you.  I don't find it in the least bit muddled.

Neither do I, not now. There has, of course, been the added benefit of much debate in various forums and most people's ability to use common sense improves immensely on the back of that. Think that is about it.

[system 4-50]

So at this instant in time, the position is that if I'm a non-liveaboard CC'er, from the 6th June I must move but I'm not allowed to stay aboard overnight while doing it?

[Higgs]

3 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Neither do I, not now. There has, of course, been the added benefit of much debate in various forums and most people's ability to use common sense improves immensely on the back of that. Think that is about it.

 

In some ways, we're not required to have loads of common sense. I should have thought that self preservation would cover most bases. Maybe the thought of destitution or some other pressing need might undermine a certain side of preservation. 

 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

Just now, system 4-50 said:

So at this instant in time, the position is that if I'm a non-liveaboard CC'er, from the 6th June I must move but I'm not allowed to stay aboard overnight while doing it?

Good point.  CRT may be assuming all ccers are liveaboards.

[Traveller]

20 minutes ago, Phil. said:

I’m sure if you need help with some common sense, you only have to ask. What is it in the new advice that is causing you some difficulty.

Where in my post did I say I needed help with common sense? Not sure how you could do that anyway. Can you help someone's "common sense" - surely you can just feed them information to which they then apply their common sense. 

[frahkn]

30 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

The appreciation of the situation, whatever that may be, has to take into consideration that there may be no way of effecting the 'correct' behaviour in us all. We are not exposed to all the pressures of government. Ministers all have their' own definitions of what is the right course of action. How possible do you think it is to convey the correct information. Simple terms are for the general public, on the practical side of getting any information across. 

 

 

I've just wasted a specs cleaner to clean finger marks off my screen. I got them on trying to shift what I thought was a midge or a flak of dirt.?