Can we cruise again?

[nicknorman]

2 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

Though the other side of the coin is that car accidents are a massive drag on the NHS and boat accidents aren't.

True, however the NHS is not under any strain, well certainly around here anyway. Hospitals, having cancelled elective stuff, and no longer having many COVID patients, are pretty empty. In some areas such as Scotland, they have never been anywhere near full. All those nightingale hospitals never really got used.

Edited May 13, 2020 by nicknorman

[Traveller]

By comparison the Broads have announced they are open as from today.

 

Broads Authority statement 13 May: Government confirms that private boats can use Broads waterways

The Broads Authority has today received confirmation from Defra that privately owned powered boats can be used on the Broads for day trips as long as other guidance on social distancing is followed. 

This follows guidance issued earlier this week that allowed sailing and paddle boating (including canoes, kayaks and paddle boards) to resume.

Whilst other inland waterways face a delay in the return of powered private boats, the Broads is able to welcome boaters back because maintenance of the waterways has continued throughout the COVID-19 lockdown.

Whilst the public are advised to stay at home as much as possible, from today (13 May) you are now able to leave your home and travel to exercise or spend time outdoors from today.

As well as the relaxation of boating restrictions, owners may also visit their boats for leisure or to do maintenance but are not able to stay overnight away from their usual residence (so day trips only).

The Authority urges people to take care to follow guidelines and respect social distancing and to bear in mind that many businesses associated with boating may not yet be able to open.

It is also essential that boaters contact marinas where their vessels are moored directly to see if they are able to access them as some businesses may not be open or able to facilitate safe access.

The revised guidance on returning to work (if you are not able to do so from home) may also mean that some businesses may be able to re-open whilst others cannot. 

As well as restrictions business owners will have to judge whether it is safe to re-open and if they can apply social distancing/precautionary measures to protect staff and customers.

Whilst we are all pleased that we can access the Broads again, the threat of Coronavirus is still very real. It is up to all of us to ensure the guidelines are followed to help save lives and protect our NHS.

Read the full statement on our website: https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/n…/coronavirus-covid-19/

 

 

 

 

[Phil.]

1 hour ago, Rickent said:

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

That would depend on who is asking.

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, Traveller said:

By comparison the Broads have announced they are open as from today.

 

Broads Authority statement 13 May: Government confirms that private boats can use Broads waterways

The Broads Authority has today received confirmation from Defra that privately owned powered boats can be used on the Broads for day trips as long as other guidance on social distancing is followed. 

This follows guidance issued earlier this week that allowed sailing and paddle boating (including canoes, kayaks and paddle boards) to resume.

Whilst other inland waterways face a delay in the return of powered private boats, the Broads is able to welcome boaters back because maintenance of the waterways has continued throughout the COVID-19 lockdown.

Whilst the public are advised to stay at home as much as possible, from today (13 May) you are now able to leave your home and travel to exercise or spend time outdoors from today.

As well as the relaxation of boating restrictions, owners may also visit their boats for leisure or to do maintenance but are not able to stay overnight away from their usual residence (so day trips only).

The Authority urges people to take care to follow guidelines and respect social distancing and to bear in mind that many businesses associated with boating may not yet be able to open.

It is also essential that boaters contact marinas where their vessels are moored directly to see if they are able to access them as some businesses may not be open or able to facilitate safe access.

The revised guidance on returning to work (if you are not able to do so from home) may also mean that some businesses may be able to re-open whilst others cannot. 

As well as restrictions business owners will have to judge whether it is safe to re-open and if they can apply social distancing/precautionary measures to protect staff and customers.

Whilst we are all pleased that we can access the Broads again, the threat of Coronavirus is still very real. It is up to all of us to ensure the guidelines are followed to help save lives and protect our NHS.

Read the full statement on our website: https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/n…/coronavirus-covid-19/

 

 

 

 

So much the same as the current CRT guidance.

[Traveller]

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

So much the same as the current CRT guidance.

To be expected perhaps?

[Machpoint005]

28 minutes ago, Traveller said:

what makes driving miles to a picnic less risky than running up and down a waterway for the day?

 

It's an example of the path of least resistance followed by a weak government that is following public opinion, instead of leading it by providing full information.

[Cheshire cat]

It's all about the locks really. What do you do when you arrive at the lock and there's a dozen Gongoozlers and three fishermen on it. Not easy to socially distance.

[Machpoint005]

7 minutes ago, Traveller said:

By comparison the Broads have announced they are open as from today.

 

Not a valid comparison - how many locks and moveable structures are there on the Broads. and how wide are the waterways?

[sirweste]

Interesting contradiction between the requirement for CC to start moving again and HM to avoid the use of locks, though admittedly only by a few days

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Richard Fairhurst said:

Though the other side of the coin is that car accidents are a massive drag on the NHS and boat accidents aren't.

That is very true, but the focus seems to be letting things get back to normal where they can but at the same time reduce the R number. That seems to be the fundamental target.

 

One of the effects of the lockdown has so far been that the A&E side of things in the NHS has seen a reduction in activity over recent weeks so it could be said they are better equipped to deal with a few RTC's than they were earlier in the year.

[Traveller]

4 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Not a valid comparison - how many locks and moveable structures are there on the Broads. and how wide are the waterways?

I just put it up as a comparison (and for info) not as a judgement call. In any event Crt are also open from today I believe, but you cannot use the locks - that will work well for those with lock free runs.

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

It's an example of the path of least resistance followed by a weak government that is following public opinion, instead of leading it by providing full information.

 

I think they, the government, are between the horns of a dilemma. Those of us who are no longer spring chickens, the more likely to be on the list of those that can afford the time off in lockdown, and, the most wary of easing down the lockdown; for the position we hold as members of the more vulnerable. The younger ones are raring to go. 

 

 

[john6767]

The email is a good clear message from CRT, and exactly in line with the government clarification this morning.

 

7 minutes ago, sirweste said:

Interesting contradiction between the requirement for CC to start moving again and HM to avoid the use of locks, though admittedly only by a few days

The way I read the email, CC'ers don't need to move from their current mooring until 6 June, so by that time they expect the navigation to be full open. 

 

It still needs the government to allow use of second homes before leisure boaters can stay overnight, and we don't know when that will happen.

Edited May 13, 2020 by john6767

[TheBiscuits]

9 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said:

It's all about the locks really. What do you do when you arrive at the lock and there's a dozen Gongoozlers and three fishermen on it. Not easy to socially distance.

 

Have you ever seen jousting?

 

I have a 12 foot ash pole on my cabin roof ...

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Not a valid comparison - how many locks and moveable structures are there on the Broads. and how wide are the waterways?

Only three that I know of.

 

And they either dont require moving for your average leisure boat or if they do it's done independently of any direct input from the boaters themselves.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by The Happy Nomad
Forgot one....

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, john6767 said:

The email is a good clear message from CRT, and exactly in line with the government clarification this morning.

 

The way I read the email, CC'ers don't need to move from their current mooring until 6 June, so by that time they expect the navigation to be full open. 

 

It still needs the government to allow use of second homes before leisure boater can stay overnight, and we don't know when that will happen.

I agree.  It was jolly useful to see their plans over the next few weeks.  Of course, we all know those plans may have to change.  Let's all hope the R0 stays below 1.

[Traveller]

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

It's an example of the path of least resistance followed by a weak government that is following public opinion, instead of leading it by providing full information.

I do find that hard to argue with in these circumstances.

[MoominPapa]

18 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

I would say the reason there is a difference between travelling in a car and a boat is purely down to the chance of social contact during the journey.

 

In a car one will generally be enclosed (unless driving a convertible of course) whilst boating you are outside, meeting others at locks and bridges as you go, so the (theoretical) potential for transmission during a boat journey than a car journey is greater.

As one of the few (maybe only) people here who has done significant boating during the lockdown, can I second this? You're not just sitting, fat and happy, in the middle of  the canal, and surface transmission at locks is the least of your worries. Much more of the problem is when you're standing on the back of the boat in the bottom of a lock and someone's ugly mug appears above you whilst they gawp at this new sight: there are a LOT of people taking their Boris exercise on towpaths who have never been near a canal before lockdown and have not seen boats moving. Two metres safe distance is two metres HORIZONTALLY, if someone is standing above you, you're much more vulnerable. 

 

To be safe, expect to have to shout at people to get them to clear lock areas before you use the lock, and expect to get very strange looks when you shout at people standing on bridges as you approach to ask them to move off the bridge whilst you pass under. Now that everyone has been let out again, somewhere like Foxton will be hell to boat through; it'll be heaving, as will Buckby top lock; the pub may be closed but people will be using the tables on the lockside. Add similar places in you locale to taste.

 

Also expect the towpaths to be busier than you're used to: there will be a lot more people walking past your boat, and a lot more people cycling. Judging by the prevalence of groups of young males travelling fast on bikes during the lockdown period, gay, poly, marriage is a lot more common than I thought.

 

MP.

 

[Athy]

As this isn't in the Politics section of the forum, could we please avoid political comment, especially of a contentious nature?

[Traveller]

5 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

As one of the few (maybe only) people here who has done significant boating during the lockdown, can I second this? You're not just sitting, fat and happy, in the middle of  the canal, and surface transmission at locks is the least of your worries. Much more of the problem is when you're standing on the back of the boat in the bottom of a lock and someone's ugly mug appears above you whilst they gawp at this new sight: there are a LOT of people taking their Boris exercise on towpaths who have never been near a canal before lockdown and have not seen boats moving. Two metres safe distance is two metres HORIZONTALLY, if someone is standing above you, you're much more vulnerable. 

 

To be safe, expect to have to shout at people to get them to clear lock areas before you use the lock, and expect to get very strange looks when you shout at people standing on bridges as you approach to ask them to move off the bridge whilst you pass under. Now that everyone has been let out again, somewhere like Foxton will be hell to boat through; it'll be heaving, as will Buckby top lock; the pub may be closed but people will be using the tables on the lockside. Add similar places in you locale to taste.

 

Also expect the towpaths to be busier than you're used to: there will be a lot more people walking past your boat, and a lot more people cycling. Judging by the prevalence of groups of young males travelling fast on bikes during the lockdown period, gay, poly, marriage is a lot more common than I thought.

 

MP.

 

Excellent post. I question whether the Gvt thought process would ever have got that granular but, MP, there is a warning there to heed. Thank you.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Traveller
spelling

[WotEver]

4 minutes ago, Traveller said:

I question whether the Gvt thought process would ever have got that granular

I'm confident that the thought processes in the various SAGE and COBRA meetings were far more granular than that, but do they truly need to spell out every scenario for every conceivable circumstance in a 10,000 page document every time they issue new advice?  Or should they credit the population with some common sense?

[Higgs]

 

Easing the lockdown has become inevitable. The Nightingale medical centres are available this time - if common sense fails.

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Higgs

[roland elsdon]

Lots of hysteria. You are nearer people in a supermarket for longer in one of those  social distanced conga lines than you are in the open air going through a bridge hole or passing people on towpath. 
While aerosol transmission is possible in enclosed spaces it is far less dangerous, than grabbing an unwashed supermarket trolley , and then coz the q is boring playing or talking on your phone

[churchward]

The issue really is limiting activity and as been pointed out keeping the infection rate low (R number) this means restricting people doing things.  It is natural for people looking to get out and about whenever they see a new rule relaxing those restrictions to want to add on and find a way to do what they wish to do. Canoeing may seem very like boating in a narrowboat but there are subtle differences and if you allow both that mean more people milling about travelling etc.  If every argument of "if they can do that then I an do this" is allowed pretty soon it means everyone can do anything. We need to keep the spread of the virus to a minimum level or a lot of people will die through our own selfishness.

 

I live only a couple of miles from Llyn Tegid (Bala Lake) a very nice place to go sailing. I have my boat at home I could just hitch up and go sailing and with little chance of meeting up with anyone and I cold even tag it onto a shopping trip into the town.  That is not permitted at the moment and so I do not do it not because I could not do this reasonably safely but because we need to be good citizens and follow the rules and guidelines and do our bit not just to keep me safe but to keep everyone around us safe.

 

The advice and guidance from CRT and other navigation authorities is clear, just follow it.  I do not think it will be long (assuming we do not start to get a 2nd spike in cases) before things are more open and navigation possible.  In the meantime lines have to be drawn and some things not permitted there will be things that fall one side of that line or the other. 

Edited May 13, 2020 by churchward

[Machpoint005]

53 minutes ago, The Happy Nomad said:

 

One of the effects of the lockdown has so far been that the A&E side of things in the NHS has seen a reduction in activity over recent weeks so it could be said they are better equipped to deal with a few RTC's than they were earlier in the year.

 

Another interpretation is that people are only using the services of the NHS when they need to, instead of when they want to.  Long may that continue. (This probably reflects a GP's view.)