Can we cruise again?

[doratheexplorer]

18 hours ago, restlessnomad said:

when people have different views, it leads to interesting arguments and conversations, makes the world is a less dull place. 

I can't be 'offended' by somebody expressing strong opinion, even highly distasteful and dangerous ( supporting fgm or genocide for example), if it is expressed in a cogent and respectful manner. I hate when adults cannot hold a proper conversation, throw temper tantrum, talk in abusive manner, engage in intellectual dishonesty, even if I broadly agree with the point they are making. 

Exactly this.  I'd add that when the things a person says or writes are clearly to offend or wind up the other person rather than actually engaging with the debate, then I will find my patience wearing thin.  This is exactly what defines a troll.

[doratheexplorer]

53 minutes ago, Rickent said:

Looking at those guidelines I can't see how CRT can justify not allowing boating to commence.

I think a day trip, there and back would be ok.  But once CRT allow that, it will be hard to control against longer trips.

 

From the guidance:

"There are no restrictions on how far you can travel to get to the countryside. However, you cannot visit and stay overnight at a holiday home or second home."

[Rickent]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

I think a day trip, there and back would be ok.  But once CRT allow that, it will be hard to control against longer trips.

 

From the guidance:

"There are no restrictions on how far you can travel to get to the countryside. However, you cannot visit and stay overnight at a holiday home or second home."

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

[doratheexplorer]

2 minutes ago, Rickent said:

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

It's both.  The key thing is that we can't stay overnight away from our primary home.

 

I'm in an odd position:  My boat is my primary home.  However, since lockdown started I've been living in someone else's house with them.  So right now, this house would reasonably be classed as my home.  I could, if I wanted to be bloody minded about it, go to my boat today, declare myself home, and set off cruising.  That's clearly not what the government or CRT intend though, so common sense kicks in...

[peterboat]

3 minutes ago, Rickent said:

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

Well my boat is staying firmly tied to the bank because for me it's not a grey area, if you normally travel to the boat and spend extended time on it ,it becomes a second home 

[john6767]

10 minutes ago, Rickent said:

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

My view would be if you stay overnight then it is a second home.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Rickent said:

It's such a grey area and open to interpretation, is a boat a second home or a motorised pleasure craft.

 

From Wiki.

 

A home, or domicile, is a living space used as a permanent or semi-permanent residence for an individual, family, household or several families in a tribe. It is often a house, apartment, or other building, or alternatively a mobile home, houseboat, yurt or any other portable shelter. A principle of constitutional law in many countries, related to the right to privacy enshrined in article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights[1] is the inviolability of the home as an individual's place of shelter and refuge.

 

 

I think that is pretty clear.

[Rickent]

Fine, I get that, residential moorers are in a privately owned motorised craft but are in their primary residence not their second home hence where the legislation becomes difficult.

[WotEver]

6 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

That's clearly not what the government or CRT intend though, so common sense kicks in...

Sadly, it's not too common, as this thread clearly demonstrates.

 

I find no ambiguity in the new guidelines.  Basically they're asking the population to exercise common sense in their approach to risk and do everything to minimise contact.  It's sad that so many folk appear unable to grasp that simple concept.

9 minutes ago, peterboat said:

... for me it's not a grey area,

Nor for me.  Either some people are uncommonly thick or they're being intentionally obtuse.

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, Rickent said:

Fine, I get that, residential moorers are in a privately owned motorised craft but are in their primary residence not their second home hence where the legislation becomes difficult.

For permanent liveaboards, the question is, can they go on longer cruises, or only to the water/elsan and back?  I do think that's a legally grey area but for the sake of being reasonable, they should all be minimising their cruising.  Where forum members have had good reason to cruise to a new area, fair enough.  I would be cruising mainly for my own enjoyment, so that's not fair enough (even though some boaters are clearly doing this).  I will wait until overnight stays at second homes are allowed and then I may head off for my cruising season.

[Flyboy]

I can now travel to my boat in a marina but not stay in it overnight yet the live aboards in the same marina can.  Also I can paddle a canoe down the canal but not drive my boat down it. It makes no sense.

[Rickent]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

For permanent liveaboards, the question is, can they go on longer cruises, or only to the water/elsan and back?  I do think that's a legally grey area but for the sake of being reasonable, they should all be minimising their cruising.  Where forum members have had good reason to cruise to a new area, fair enough.  I would be cruising mainly for my own enjoyment, so that's not fair enough (even though some boaters are clearly doing this).  I will wait until overnight stays at second homes are allowed and then I may head off for my cruising season.

I think that will be the point at which we will be allowed to go boating.

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

For permanent liveaboards, the question is, can they go on longer cruises, or only to the water/elsan and back?  I do think that's a legally grey area but for the sake of being reasonable, they should all be minimising their cruising.  Where forum members have had good reason to cruise to a new area, fair enough.  I would be cruising mainly for my own enjoyment, so that's not fair enough (even though some boaters are clearly doing this).  I will wait until overnight stays at second homes are allowed and then I may head off for my cruising season.

Which, I think, perfectly sums up the current advice.

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

I can now travel to my boat in a marina but not stay in it overnight yet the live aboards in the same marina can.  Also I can paddle a canoe down the canal but not drive my boat down it. It makes no sense.

Whether or not it makes sense to you, them's the (current) rools.

[Traveller]

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

I can now travel to my boat in a marina but not stay in it overnight yet the live aboards in the same marina can.  Also I can paddle a canoe down the canal but not drive my boat down it. It makes no sense.

Yet you can drive your car for miles and go for a picnic. It certainly seems to lack cohesion.

 

 

 

[john6767]

Just now, Traveller said:

Yet you can drive your car for miles and go for a picnic. It certainly seems to lack cohesion.

 

 

 

But you are not staying overnight when you go for that picnic, that is surely the key factor.

[Traveller]

Just now, john6767 said:

But you are not staying overnight when you go for that picnic, that is surely the key factor.

You would not necessarily be staying all night if you took your boat for a run down the canal either.

[Higgs]

 

People have now been given the green light to travel a fair distance, to visit their' boats; check them and spend some time on them. The problem is not with the authorities. The problem is with people wanting the mile, instead of the inch. The easing down is going to require self control. 

 

 

 

[john6767]

Just now, Traveller said:

You would not necessarily be staying all night if you took your boat for a run down the canal either.

Yes, and the government with today's guidance clear allows that subject to the navigation authority's approval.  If you were CRT would you say that is allowed, I don't think I would right now., but we have to wait for an update from then.  It only 9:40am they have not exactly had a lot of time yet to discuss this.

[WotEver]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

People have now been given the green light to travel a fair distance, to visit their' boats; check them and spend some time on them. The problem is not with the authorities. The problem is with people wanting the mile, instead of the inch. The easing down is going to require self control. 

Indeed. It’s not exactly difficult to comprehend. 

[Traveller]

5 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

People have now been given the green light to travel a fair distance, to visit their' boats; check them and spend some time on them. The problem is not with the authorities. The problem is with people wanting the mile, instead of the inch. The easing down is going to require self control. 

 

 

 

Fair enough, but the way this is panning out at the moment some appear to have a longer inch than others. Why is there a ban on day travel on a boat but not in a car. Is it just Crt being cautious in their interpretation of the guidelines?

 

I came to this thread late and was unaware a further update is expected from Crt. Hopefully the imbalance will be put right soon.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Traveller

[TheBiscuits]

2 minutes ago, john6767 said:

we have to wait for an update from then.  It only 9:40am they have not exactly had a lot of time yet to discuss this.

 

You're being reasonable and sensible again John.  It will confuse some posters! 

 

[system 4-50]

I have noticed that when on my boat, at dusk I turn into a writhing mass of contagion that doesn't abate until dawn, so clearly I should not stay aboard overnight.

[Higgs]

9 minutes ago, Traveller said:

Fair enough, but the way this is panning out at the moment some appear to have a longer inch than others. Why is there aban on day travel on a boat but not in a car. Is it just Crt being cautious in their interpretation of the guidelines?

 

The ban will permit the travel to a boat by car, but if the distance is so far that the stay on the boat becomes likely to require an overnight stay, then, the journey is too far. 

 

The cruising is the restricted part, because the authorities have not yet come to the decision to allow that. And even when they do, the first lock is going to present a virus transmission problem. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Higgs

[Higgs]

10 minutes ago, system 4-50 said:

I have noticed that when on my boat, at dusk I turn into a writhing mass of contagion that doesn't abate until dawn, so clearly I should not stay aboard overnight.

 

Thin end of the wedge. 

 

 

[Traveller]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

The ban will permit the travel to a boat by car, but if the distance is so far that the stay on the boat becomes likely to require an overnight stay, then, the journey is too far. 

I understand and agree with that. Where I see the imbalance is that one can go for miles on a day trip in the car but cannot have a run out on the boat during that day trip. It would not help me anyway as getting to and from the boat would take most of the day out anyway - but some live close to their pride and joys. I understand the decision rests with Crt. This being the case I can understand why they are cautious.