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Calorifier rusty cap and power cuts


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Hi all,

 

Couple questions: Under the red cap of my calorifier it can be a bit wet and there appears to be a bit of rust. I assume this is just condensation? 

 

Second question is power related: Eventually I'll be updating my electrics when I can afford solar and all the gubbins. At the moment I'm on shoreline, however, I occasionally will get the breaker flip off and all power go when I add too much draw (for instance, turning on the immersion heater, or running the microwave and washing machine at the same time). And it seems to be getting worse. At the moment the power cuts even if I have everything off and try and switch the immersion on. I'd have thought that on shoreline there wouldn't be an issue with power draw? Does it do something weird like go through the batteries and shoreline just charges those? And if thats the case, does it sound like my batteries are dying?

 

P.s. I am almost entirely an electrics numpty, so hopefully the above makes sense...

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4 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

Hi all,

 

Couple questions: Under the red cap of my calorifier it can be a bit wet and there appears to be a bit of rust. I assume this is just condensation? 

 

Second question is power related: Eventually I'll be updating my electrics when I can afford solar and all the gubbins. At the moment I'm on shoreline, however, I occasionally will get the breaker flip off and all power go when I add too much draw (for instance, turning on the immersion heater, or running the microwave and washing machine at the same time). And it seems to be getting worse. At the moment the power cuts even if I have everything off and try and switch the immersion on. I'd have thought that on shoreline there wouldn't be an issue with power draw? Does it do something weird like go through the batteries and shoreline just charges those? And if thats the case, does it sound like my batteries are dying?

 

P.s. I am almost entirely an electrics numpty, so hopefully the above makes sense...

https://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/profile/34576-flow/

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As Brian implies the wet is  likely to be a leaking immersion heater.

 

The tripping may well be related because some "extra" electricity can leak through the wet inside the immersion heater. This causes extra current to flow and probably not where it is supposed to flow so the breaker trips. I am fairly sure if you replace the heater the problem will go away.

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If it now continually cuts out when you try switching the immersion heater on it's probably the immersion element shorting out and knackered, especially if your in a hard water distrct. They fir up with limescale, overheat and burn or short out. I renew some here regularly every 2 years because of this, hard water distrct.

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9 minutes ago, bizzard said:

If it now continually cuts out when you try switching the immersion heater on it's probably the immersion element shorting out and knackered, especially if your in a hard water distrct. They fir up with limescale, overheat and burn or short out. I renew some here regularly every 2 years because of this, hard water distrct.

I'm not sure if its hard or soft here, but I just had a good close look at it with a torch (he lives in the back of a very dark cupboard) and its definitely looking like it needs to be replaced. Any recommended ones?

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12 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

 

I'm not sure if its hard or soft here, but I just had a good close look at it with a torch (he lives in the back of a very dark cupboard) and its definitely looking like it needs to be replaced. Any recommended ones?

Does your kettle get much limescale in it ?

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16 minutes ago, vanboosh said:

 

I'm not sure if its hard or soft here, but I just had a good close look at it with a torch (he lives in the back of a very dark cupboard) and its definitely looking like it needs to be replaced. Any recommended ones?

They come in different sized elements - do you have any pics?

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5 minutes ago, robtheplod said:

They come in different sized elements - do you have any pics?

Yeah, sorry that would probably help, hey! It’s quite a tight space to get into, so sorry they’re not super clear

DEEBAC50-00B4-4EEE-9BA7-1301EC823119.jpeg

4D72EFC8-5D81-4470-A973-AF248FF7ADB7.jpeg

DB3556C2-AF68-46C9-8941-5988F3E7DEE7.jpeg

Edited by vanboosh
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Anyway. If the element has firred up and shorted out internally and tripped the power off, it won't correct itself, it'll trip out every time you attempt to switch the immersion on.

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1 minute ago, bizzard said:

Anyway. If the element has firred up and shorted out internally and tripped the power off, it won't correct itself, it'll trip out every time you attempt to switch the immersion on.

Yeah, I also have no idea how long its been there, (was there when I bought the boat about a year ago) so could well have come from a hard water area and gotten all furry.

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Just now, vanboosh said:

Yeah, I also have no idea how long its been there, (was there when I bought the boat about a year ago) so could well have come from a hard water area and gotten all furry.

Ok, but does everything else work alright until you switch the immersion on,  or with everything else switched off and you switch the immersion on does it trip. A bit more experimentation needed I think.

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If it does test faulty then something like this would suit you - provided the tank if fairly deep/tall (difficult to see)….. is the tank an upright one with the rusty bit on top?

https://www.midlandchandlers.co.uk/products/immersion-heater-surejust-27-1kw-240v-hc-070

 

 

Edited by robtheplod
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3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Ok, but does everything else work alright until you switch the immersion on,  or with everything else switched off and you switch the immersion on does it trip. A bit more experimentation needed I think.

Yeah, everything else is working, but as soon as I flick the switch for the immersion, everything trips out. Plus the amount of water and rust at the top of the calorifier also makes me feel its probably unhealthy. They seem to be relatively cheap to replace although it doesn't look like a particularly fun job, but I'm not doing much else at the moment. 

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19 minutes ago, bizzard said:

Anyway. If the element has firred up and shorted out internally and tripped the power off, it won't correct itself, it'll trip out every time you attempt to switch the immersion on.

The water leaking into the terminals wont of helped matters

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1 minute ago, robtheplod said:

Forgot to say, that rust is 'rust-lite' ….. :)

 

20190913_152117.jpg

Looks nasty.  There is another thread on here running called  ''Calorifier leaking top'' which describes how to remove the immersion heater element, save me doing it.

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What is tripping out? Is it an MCB circuit breaker, or an RCD residual current detector? Or something else? There are different reasons for each sort to trip. A picture of the gadget that is tripping off would be useful. People have been assuming it is an over current situation, which it may well be, but an earth leakage issue is another possibility,  especially with water around.

Jen

Edited by Jen-in-Wellies
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31 minutes ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

  People have been assuming it is an over current situation, which it may well be, but an earth leakage issue is another possibility,  especially with water around.

Jen

I haven't My first thought was earth leakage as that is normally why an immersion heater blows a fuse or operates a trip

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1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said:

What is tripping out? Is it an MCB circuit breaker, or an RCD residual current detector? Or something else? There are different reasons for each sort to trip. A picture of the gadget that is tripping off would be useful. People have been assuming it is an over current situation, which it may well be, but an earth leakage issue is another possibility,  especially with water around.

Jen

 

With that amount of water and rust I think it could trip either the RCD or an MCB if the boat has both hopefully the RCD would trip first but who knows. one thing for sure the heater needs changing ASAP.

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46 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

Can I just point out that in a house that cable would not comply with the wiring regs. Dunno if the same applies on a boat.

In an ideal world you should use heat resistant flex but most boats use artic or similar with no ill effects...at least it’s not T & E

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