Calorifier leaking at top

[Flow]

I have a leak from the top of the calorifier within the area where the immersion goes in. It's only does it occasionally and I originally thought it was caused by water boiling up through the immersion entry hole when it was on but I've since discovered it does it even when the tank is cold. I can't work it out so any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. 

[ditchcrawler]

New immersion heater required

[Flow]

Ahh that's what I thought ditchcrawler so I've replaced it, that's a brand new one in the photo. I first discovered this problem because the rcd kept tripping every time the immersion came on. When that didn't work I replaced the thermal cut off switch witch has cured the rcd trip but this water keeps returning. 

[Tacet]

16 minutes ago, Flow said:

Ahh that's what I thought ditchcrawler so I've replaced it, that's a brand new one in the photo. I first discovered this problem because the rcd kept tripping every time the immersion came on. When that didn't work I replaced the thermal cut off switch witch has cured the rcd trip but this water keeps returning. 

Apologies if my doubts are misplaced.  The thermostat look new - but not so for the immersion heater.  You undid the big brass hexagon and changed the whole gubbins?

 

[WotEver]

Doesn’t look like a new immersion heater to me. 

[Flow]

The calorifier is a fair age, it was in when I got the boat 4 years ago so I don't know the exact age. The thermostat element is a single bayonet type that  just drops in through a hole in the tip so no need to unscrew the top nut. I have heard that the nut is an absolute b**** to undo so I'm trying to avoid that if possible. 

8 minutes ago, WotEver said:

Doesn’t look like a new immersion heater to me. 

I can assure you it is, I bought and fitted it myself last week. 

[Slim]

As someone who got 'rained off' by Covid 19 whilst in the middle of changing an immersion element I'm not convinced.-- Terms like bayonet type, just droops in through a hole in the tip (top) and no need to unscrew the nut just don't ring true. What size , roughly, was the spanner you used to remove the old immersion heater? I have a horrible suspicion that you replaced the thermostat not the heater.

Do you have a photo of the removed item or a photo , not in situ, of the item replaced.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Slim

[Flow]

15 minutes ago, Slim said:

As someone who got 'rained off' by Covid 19 whilst in the middle of changing an immersion element I'm not convinced.-- Terms like bayonet type, just droops in through a hole in the tip (top) and no need to unscrew the nut just don't ring true. What size , roughly, was the spanner you used to remove the old immersion heater? I have a horrible suspicion that you replaced the thermostat not the heater.

Do you have a photo of the removed item or a photo , not in situ, of the item replaced.

Ahh so the blue topped bayonet element thing is just the thermostat and not the actual elements, I've obviously got the two mixed up. So what you're saying is that I have to remove the whole thing and replace the lot? 

[Flow]

7 minutes ago, Flow said:

Ahh so the blue topped bayonet element thing is just the thermostat and not the actual elements, I've obviously got the two mixed up. So what you're saying is that I have to remove the whole thing and replace the lot? 

Thanks for the help everyone. After doing some homework I can see the mistake I've made, obvious really in hindsight. It looks like I'll be having to attack that massive nut after all ?. 

[canals are us?]

To replace.

 

Buy a box spanner or crank spanner. I bought a cranked spanner.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R1.TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.XImmersion+heater+sp.TRS0&_nkw=immersion+heater+spanner&_sacat=0

 

 

If your not confident on electrics don't proceed!

 

 

Spray some penetrating fluid the day before around the join of heater/calorifier join.

Turn water pump off at 12 volt switch/fuse board. Turn water off at tank shut off valve. Most likely near water pump. Open taps to get rid of dregs. Turn off the immersion electrics.  Disconnect wiring of old immersion heater. 

 

Have plenty of old towels and wrap them around base of calorifier. As calorifier is still full of water gives better protection to not damage/tear it when undoing the heater.

I had to give my crank spanner a few taps anticlockwise with a hammer to loosen. You will find as you loosen you will loose water out of the calorifier, just have plenty of towels.

 

Inspect mating face of calorifier flange is free of old seal/ PTFE tape and flat and install new supplied calorifier O ring seal to base of immersion and refit.

Check taps are closed except one and turn water on and pump electrics and refill calorifier, checking your immersion isn't leaking and vent taps until they stop spluttering.

 

If all good reconnect the wiring following the wiring guide on the immersion heater instructions and turn mains back on.

 

James.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by canals are us?

[robtheplod]

 

[Tacet]

If it's tight - and they always are - then this type of non-cranked spanner is best.  When you hit the handle, it applies a torque in the same plane as is required.   You may need to remove some insulation foam with a knife.

 

When hit, the cranked type bends on the crank and the box spanner tips off the hexagon.

 

[Slim]

All good advice IF you can get a swing of a hammer on the spanner. I can't so here is what I propose to do when I can get back to the boat. I have a box spanner type spanner that I'm having a bar welded across the top with an old 1/2" drive socket welded onto it. I have a 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench with adjustable settings. I know that the whole setup will fit into the space available. Hopefully this will work. Since it's a last resort I don't see I have anything to lose. There's no way I can get the calorifier out without major surgery to the back cabin.  

[Tracy D'arth]

Your new marine immersion heater element should have 2 thermostats in, one resettable and one as a final safety fail safe.  Will it be one  or one  and a half kilowatt?

Do not use a 3kw domestic one, most shore power supplies would not like it and they are not always fail safe.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Tracy D'arth

[WotEver]

3 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your new marine immersion heater element should have 2 thermostats in, one resettable and one as a final safety fail safe.

Just as a FYI kind of thing, ALL immersion heaters should now have the failsafe stat. The regs changed after a nasty accident with a child iirc. 

[Phoenix_V]

56 minutes ago, Slim said:

All good advice IF you can get a swing of a hammer on the spanner. I can't so here is what I propose to do when I can get back to the boat. I have a box spanner type spanner that I'm having a bar welded across the top with an old 1/2" drive socket welded onto it. I have a 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench with adjustable settings. I know that the whole setup will fit into the space available. Hopefully this will work. Since it's a last resort I don't see I have anything to lose. There's no way I can get the calorifier out without major surgery to the back cabin.  

Gentle taps with the hammer lots of them not a big swing those cylinders are delicate. battery impact driver may or may not be enough have the hammer ready in case it doesn't. We had this problem and though I took the whole lot apart and reassembled with a new washer and ptfe never totally cured it. It is not too much of a nuisance for us as we are not on the boat all the time (not at all this year by looks of things) and of course it doesn't leak once the pump is turned off, hard water is starting to seal it naturally now. Tip for a temporary fix cut away the some of the blue  insulation at the top so the water can drain into the bilge and not hang around at the top causing problems.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Phoenix_V

[Slim]

5 minutes ago, Phoenix_V said:

Gentle taps with the hammer lots of them not a big swing those cylinders are delicate. battery impact driver may or may not be enough have the hammer ready in case it doesn't. We had this problem and though I took the whole lot apart and reassembled with a new washer and ptfe never totally cured it. It is not too much of a nuisance for us as we are not on the boat all the time (not at all this year by looks of things) and of course it doesn't leak once the pump is turned off, hard water is starting to seal it naturally now. Tip for a temporary fix cut away the some of the blue  insulation at the top so the water can drain into the bilge and not hang around at the top causing problems.

Just cannot get a hammer of any description in the space. I've got a dinky hammer which gets into many a small space but not this time. Before I was 'evicted' I tried every imaginable way. Last resort ?

[dor]

i had an immersion heater that was impossible to undo.  It leaked slightly.  I fixed it by draining down slightly so the top of the cylinder/element would dry out then used Fernox Ls-X (google for suppliers) which fixed the problem.  It's magic stuff, nothing like ordinary silicone sealant even though it looks like it.

[Bod]

3 hours ago, Slim said:

All good advice IF you can get a swing of a hammer on the spanner. I can't so here is what I propose to do when I can get back to the boat. I have a box spanner type spanner that I'm having a bar welded across the top with an old 1/2" drive socket welded onto it. I have a 1/2" drive cordless impact wrench with adjustable settings. I know that the whole setup will fit into the space available. Hopefully this will work. Since it's a last resort I don't see I have anything to lose. There's no way I can get the calorifier out without major surgery to the back cabin.  

Do not be surprised if you manage to rip the top of the cylinder off!

Fill the cylinder with water, that will make it a bit firmer, search on this site for more information, there have been several topics raised regarding removal of immersion heaters.

If the cylinder itself is damaged, there is no way of repairing properly, only replacement.

Once the heater is loose, is there room above it to remove it?  It will be about a metre long, but thin, so an angle might work.

 

Bod.

[Onewheeler]

If all else fails, take the water level down to below the fitting, cut back the insulation a bit, gently apply a flame from a blowlamp and it should unscrew. Marine calorifiers are designed to take 3 bar or more and are much more rugged than domestic ones.

[Tracy D'arth]

Perhaps someone should explain that the calorifier fills from the bottom and empties from the top so you cannot empty any water out of it via the hot taps with the pump off.

You should be able to drain the pipework but the calorifier will be full to the brim so when you release the immersion heater there will be a litre or so liable to run out, hence the handy towels.

You may have a drain tap near the bottom onto which you could put a hose into a bucket.

Try to get the immersion heater loose with the calorifier full, it makes it a bit less likely to buckle the top.

TD'

[Flow]

16 hours ago, canals are us? said:

To replace.

 

Buy a box spanner or crank spanner. I bought a cranked spanner.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1311.R1.TR4.TRC2.A0.H0.XImmersion+heater+sp.TRS0&_nkw=immersion+heater+spanner&_sacat=0

 

 

If your not confident on electrics don't proceed!

 

 

Spray some penetrating fluid the day before around the join of heater/calorifier join.

Turn water pump off at 12 volt switch/fuse board. Turn water off at tank shut off valve. Most likely near water pump. Open taps to get rid of dregs. Turn off the immersion electrics.  Disconnect wiring of old immersion heater. 

 

Have plenty of old towels and wrap them around base of calorifier. As calorifier is still full of water gives better protection to not damage/tear it when undoing the heater.

I had to give my crank spanner a few taps anticlockwise with a hammer to loosen. You will find as you loosen you will loose water out of the calorifier, just have plenty of towels.

 

Inspect mating face of calorifier flange is free of old seal/ PTFE tape and flat and install new supplied calorifier O ring seal to base of immersion and refit.

Check taps are closed except one and turn water on and pump electrics and refill calorifier, checking your immersion isn't leaking and vent taps until they stop spluttering.

 

If all good reconnect the wiring following the wiring guide on the immersion heater instructions and turn mains back on.

 

James.

 

 

Thanks for that I'll give it a go at the weekend ?

[TheBiscuits]

15 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

the calorifier will be full to the brim so when you release the immersion heater there will be a litre or so liable to run out

 

It's much more exciting with a horizontal calorifier! 

[Flow]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

It's much more exciting with a horizontal calorifier! 

? I can imagine! This is upright with good access thank goodness. 

5 hours ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Your new marine immersion heater element should have 2 thermostats in, one resettable and one as a final safety fail safe.  Will it be one  or one  and a half kilowatt?

Do not use a 3kw domestic one, most shore power supplies would not like it and they are not always fail safe.

I'm glad you mentioned the wattage because that was going to be my next question, thanks. I think I'll go for the 1 and a half. 

[OldGoat]

Bear in mind that a 1 or 1.5 Kw heater will be very-very-very slow to heat any water at all - plan accordingly!

 

Nobody has mentioned - but remember that the cauliflower will try to rotate in the same direction as you apply the force, thus make sure that the tank is foxed somehow or have another person / device to stop it moving. Assuming that the attached pipes will hold it is mistaken....