WHEN'S IT ALL GONNA OPEN??

[Machpoint005]

4 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

For or against Brexit, if you think about it objectivity not being in the EU any more has probably saved us billions in not being turned upside down and shaken to pay Europe's covid 19 bill.

 

Those billions that have been "saved" now have to be spent (or they already have been), which was my point. I was trying to look at the big picture, which is not something our PM has ever been notable for.

 

 

4 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

The economy exacerbated by economic policy, including membership of an element of that poor economic policy. Not wholly that membership, but the lack of attention being paid to other factors that a strong society needs- support. That support hasn't been factored in for decades. 

 

 

 

I can't be the only one who could do with that in plain English.

 

 

[Machpoint005]

8 minutes ago, churchward said:

To ramp up testing capacity it has taken the opening and staffing of several large new laboratories in Milton Keynes and elsewhere with another new one coming on stream next week in Cambridge.  This has not been a thing that can or could be done over night.

 

Had they started by acting on the October 2016 Exercise Cygnus report we could by now have been more than three years ahead of the game.

 

The government was shown by the exercise that its planning for a pandemic was deeply flawed but no changes were made. Perhaps it was too busy dicking about with Brexit?

 

linky NOT to the Grauniad, for once

 

 

 

[mrsmelly]

4 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Had they started by acting on the October 2016 Exercise Cygnus report we could by now have been more than three years ahead of the game.

 

The government was shown by the exercise that its planning for a pandemic was deeply flawed but no changes were made. Perhaps it was too busy dicking about with Brexit?

 

linky NOT to the Grauniad, for once

 

 

 

They only took so long dicking about with Brexit cos the losers wouldnt accept it and we had to kick arse and show them they were indeed losers and in a democracy it only works if the loser accepts it. Job done. Had parliament obeyed the order that I and the majority gave them time could have been spent on other matters. OOps not politics innitt.

[Sir Nibble]

18 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Those billions that have been "saved" now have to be spent (or they already have been), which was my point. I was trying to look at the big picture, which is not something our PM has ever been notable for.

Not really. The billion to which you refer have indeed been spent. The billions to which I refer would have had to have been spent in addition to that.

[churchward]

12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Had they started by acting on the October 2016 Exercise Cygnus report we could by now have been more than three years ahead of the game.

 

The government was shown by the exercise that its planning for a pandemic was deeply flawed but no changes were made. Perhaps it was too busy dicking about with Brexit?

 

linky NOT to the Grauniad, for once

 

 

 

Yes of course but again not unique to the UK there has been no country with the virus who was properly prepared whether they modelled/tested a pandemic or not.  Cygnus was an exercise in testing a flu type pandemic Coronavirus is different in several aspects and could have led to stockpiling the wrong or less useful equipment and other supplies for example .  Although there would also be many lessons from the exercise that could have helped the UK now. 

 

However,  even so, acknowledging such a failing does not do one thing to help the situation we are now experiencing. It serves no purpose just now going on about past mistakes when such a deadly problem is right in front of us. Neither does it invalidate what I said in the post you were responding to.

 

A drains up full review should take place with urgency when we have gone a long way to get back to whatever the "new normal" is going to be.

Edited May 5, 2020 by churchward

[Higgs]

30 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

Those billions that have been "saved" now have to be spent (or they already have been), which was my point. I was trying to look at the big picture, which is not something our PM has ever been notable for.

 

You might know the rules of grammar, but don't let that fool you into thinking it would qualify you as PM.

 

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

12 minutes ago, churchward said:

Yes of course but again not unique to the UK there has been no country with the virus who was properly prepared whether they modelled/tested a pandemic or not.  Cygnus was an exercise in testing a flu type pandemic Coronavirus is different in several aspects and could have led to stockpiling the wrong or less useful equipment and other supplies for example .  Although there would also be many lessons from the exercise that could have helped the UK now. 

 

However,  even so, acknowledging such a failing does not do one thing to help the situation we are now experiencing. It serves no purpose just now going on about past mistakes when such a deadly problem is right in front of us. Neither does it invalidate what I said in the post you were responding to.

 

A drains up full review should take place with urgency when we have gone a long way to get back to whatever the "new normal" is going to be.

Let's not fool ourselves. The new normal will not be a changed world with social distancing and a new regard for what is truly essential, it will be the old normal but with a reduced life expectancy for the poor

[Higgs]

3 hours ago, George and Dragon said:

Businesses have, in general, been concentrating on maximising dividends rather than building up cash reserves. It looks like a pretty good strategy given that the Chancellor is quite happy to give away taxpayers' money to bail them out.

 

Bailing out? Is that all business and the economic policy have been good for. Abysmal. 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[George and Dragon]

2 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Bailing out? Is that all business and the economic policy has been good for. Abysmal. 

 

 

 

I meant that as strong praise

[Higgs]

2 minutes ago, George and Dragon said:

I meant that as strong praise

 

It sometimes difficult to know how posts are meant to be taken. My fault. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[churchward]

18 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Let's not fool ourselves. The new normal will not be a changed world with social distancing and a new regard for what is truly essential, it will be the old normal but with a reduced life expectancy for the poor

I am not sure the first is true like you but I am equally unsure that what you are suggesting will be the case either.  It is for all of us to remember what is important for now and what we want for the future and help steer politicians toward what we want.  It won't be what anyone or everyone wants but there is an opportunity to help influence the future.  There is no doubt there will be distinct changes in my mind perhaps not all for the good.  The recovery for the economy is not going to be quick and we will have to pay for all the central government assistance that is going on just now.  This is as true for all the other countries effected by the virus as much as it is for the UK.

 

BTW, I am wondering why this thread survives in general boating when most posts now are fairly overtly political and not to do with boating but the Coronavirus thread is locked due to people going "off topic"?

Edited May 5, 2020 by churchward

[Sir Nibble]

29 minutes ago, churchward said:

BTW, I am wondering why this thread survives in general boating when most posts now are fairly overtly political and not to do with boating but the Coronavirus thread is locked due to people going "off topic"?

It doesn't matter where you put the thread or what you call it, It will be followed by a pitchfork wielding mob concerned only with the government being the wrong government.  Covid 19 is the battleground not the battle. Some want to grab an extinguisher and fight the fire, some just want to stand by and demand that someone is sacked because the extinguisher isn't bigger.

Actually that's not right, it's not the size of the extinguisher it's the makers label that's objectionable.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Sir Nibble

[Machpoint005]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

They only took so long dicking about with Brexit cos the losers wouldnt accept it and we had to kick arse and show them they were indeed losers and in a democracy it only works if the loser accepts it. Job done. Had parliament obeyed the order that I and the majority gave them time could have been spent on other matters. OOps not politics innitt.

 

ISTR it was the ERG that kept blocking the deals that were offered by the PM at the time -- you know, those hedge fund managers and squillionaires that had the people's interests so much at heart. The oOpposition was doing its job of opposing. But as you say, not politics.

 

It merely occurred to me that we will never know how much of the coming recession is down to Covid-19, and how much to Brexit. We also know what excuses will be offered.

8 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Some want to grab an extinguisher and fight the fire, some just want to stand by and demand that someone is sacked because the extinguisher isn't bigger.

 

And some want to pour petrol on it.

1 hour ago, churchward said:

Although there would also be many lessons from the exercise that could have helped the UK now. 

 

There were (it is well documented) and they were not acted upon.

 

.

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Machpoint005 said:

 

 

 

It merely occurred to me that we will never know how much of the coming recession is down to Covid-19, and how much to Brexit. We also know what excuses will be offered.

 We will never know now wether there would have been a recession due to brexit or indeed the complete opposite, not that it was ever about money. Covid is going to make every downturn in the last 100 years look chicken feed. I hope its not too bad though or the government will have reason to put my state pension back even further than they already have lol.

[churchward]

8 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

There were (it is well documented) and they were not acted upon.

 

.

So, as I said in the rest of the post you removed how does that help us right now?  There will be a time and place to go though all that should or could have been done but that time is not right now.

Edited May 5, 2020 by churchward

[Mike Todd]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

They only took so long dicking about with Brexit cos the losers wouldnt accept it and we had to kick arse and show them they were indeed losers and in a democracy it only works if the loser accepts it. Job done. Had parliament obeyed the order that I and the majority gave them time could have been spent on other matters. OOps not politics innitt.

No-one is a loser until the vote is taken - debate is part of the process and a necessary component to calling ourselves a democracy. After the original decisions to join the Common market, plenty of politicians who were opposed to it continued just as loudly to voice their views and to campaign to change things. Were they also losers who should have kept quiet?

[Cheshire cat]

I was out having some exercise yesterday and came across a chap leaning on his front gate and having a chat with a friend on the phone.

 

"Yer and they're saying if we want to go on holiday we'll have to go into quarantine for two weeks and then have the holiday and then go into quarantine for two more weeks when we get back. That's six weeks I'll have to take off just to get a couple of weeks away". 

 

I didn't have the heart to point out the extra cost. Thank goodness we've all got boats.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Cheshire cat
I missed out the phone!

[mrsmelly]

1 minute ago, Mike Todd said:

No-one is a loser until the vote is taken - debate is part of the process and a necessary component to calling ourselves a democracy. After the original decisions to join the Common market, plenty of politicians who were opposed to it continued just as loudly to voice their views and to campaign to change things. Were they also losers who should have kept quiet?

Difference of course being we were never asked if we wanted to join the common market, only after the fact asked if we wished to remain and never asked if we wanted to join the eu on its inception in 93. At our first time of asking in 2016 we told em to shove it.

[Chris Lowe]

This thread has been locked by one of the other Mods due to it getting very political in the general boating area, if we unlock it for further contributions please remain on topic and definitely no politics.