WHEN'S IT ALL GONNA OPEN??

[Higgs]

15 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Covid-19 aftermath exacerbated by Brexit. Or the other way around.

 

The economy exacerbated by economic policy, including membership of an element of that poor economic policy. Not wholly that membership, but the lack of attention being paid to other factors that a strong society needs- support. That support hasn't been factored in for decades. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[mrsmelly]

13 hours ago, Wanderer Vagabond said:

Curious that it should be you that points out that they are fiddling the figures, but there you go, all I was pointing out was that the numbering system the other poster referred to probably wasn't activated until the kit was returned.

 

The fiddling of crime figures was more in the realm of the undetected crime where, for instance, if we had too many burglaries a broken door lock would be recorded as 'Criminal Damage' rather than 'Attempted Burglary' or vice versa if there had been too much Criminal Damage and not many burglaries. I disapproved of it when called on to do it and still do, but the decisions were made by the crime screeners.

Lol, that takes me back I refused to amend a crime from Burglary to theft to help massage the crime figures and had to go and " Have a chatt " with the divisional super. He was a nice bloke and explained as if I didnt know what it was all about and said he couldnt order me to change it but advised I played a ball. I refused and left the crime in as a burglary " Which it was " and came to work next day and was told I had been moved divisions from Pontefract back to Leeds, no explanation given lol. A pain as it meant commuting 15 miles instead of 3. I didnt mention it at all, I have always stuck to my guns when I have been in the right.

Edited May 5, 2020 by mrsmelly

[restlessnomad]

13 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Businesses obviously missed an opportunity to plan for the event as well. I haven't noticed that sector not running around like 'headless chickens' with their hands out. Let's hope the commercial sector puts some money away, for the next time. 2008, 2020, Predictions? We're going to have a bigger national debt, more interest to pay, even less money, for the things we need to spend money on. Pretty much the situation, before this problem hit. 

 

 

in ideal case businesses have to be competitive, so most of them cannot set aside any significant amount of money for such once in a decade situation. Also some businesses making it sound worse for them when they actually can take a hit(for example primark and burger king not paying rent to retail property owner intu). I think a lot of the big businesses will survive, small ones will need medium/long term govt loan.

[LadyG]

17 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

I didnt work for 46 years plus to give any away to any gambling companies. You only have to have a day at the races where most of us drive in and watch the dozens and dozens of flights of helicopters taking off and landing. Some of which are chartered by the likes of Ladbrokes to know there is only ever one winner.

You are not forced to gamble, just as no one is forced to go to the theatre, or McDonald's,  or to shop at Tesco.

You don't have to gamble to enjoy racing. I am not a "gambler", but I worked in racing for many years, sometimes  had a bet, often lost, sometimes won.

 To me, working in the thoroughbred industry was nothing to do with betting. It is a sport. The racing industry in the UK is among the top ten  UK industries in the UK based on turnover, it employs thousands directly and many more indirectly. Having a day at the races is a drop in the ocean, the tip of the iceberg.

There is  lot of money involved, and the gambling industry entertain many people, eg Bingo

Of course the gambling industry makes profits, why else would they be in business. You are not forced to participate, but no doubt your pension funds invest! The gambling industry is NOT the racing industry.

I occasionally go to the races, there are not dozens of helicopters flying in and out, There will be a few very rich people, a few jockeys, and a few footballer type owners, other than that most people come by car or public transport.  Not everybody lives on a limited income and has to restrict their spending, 

https://www.google.com/search?q=paul+mellon&rlz=1C1AWFC_enGB868GB869&sxsrf=ALeKk01akTRt5NJrmkzbDYOWYcBeq7BAaA:1588675953871&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=66VAI3kjompxzM%3A%2C1RXBBXChzOapVM%2C%2Fm%2F06f6jf&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kQzJly0qjWemaZtvbEAtqeG70XghQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiz55KPx5zpAhV5VBUIHS6dCuYQ_B0wG3oECAQQAw#imgrc=66VAI3kjompxzM:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by LadyG

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

in ideal case businesses have to be competitive, so most of them cannot set aside any significant amount of money for such once in a decade situation. Also some businesses making it sound worse for them when they actually can take a hit(for example primark and burger king not paying rent to retail property owner intu). I think a lot of the big businesses will survive, small ones will need medium/long term govt loan.

 

Economic catastrophes happen with some regularity. It's time the taxpayer was given a break. Put money away for the inevitable rainy day. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[Richard10002]

59 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I am not sure there is evidence of much incompetence around the PPE procurement, which is largely down to civil service/military as well as numerous commercial private sector companies all of whom have a vested interest in doing as much as possible.

I disagree

 

There has been a complete failure of leadership from government in every area of this pandemic. At every step of the way, as soon as they have been forced by public pressure and the media to give a particular aspect their attention, or do better, they seem to have made it happen.

 

Assuming PPE is now flowing in numbers big enough to satisfy demand, that is precisely what happened. Nurses and other front line staff made us aware that there wasn't enough PPE, then they started getting the virus, and some died. The media made an issue of it and, eventually, Hancock seemed to get his act together, (slowly). Prior to this the government stance was that there was plenty of PPE, and there was a reduction in standards. He even blamed the users for using it wrong!!

 

Testing was another prime example of this "policy". Government policy was that enough was being done, and it wasn't actually that critical. Then, when the media began to put pressure on him, the message changed to it being important but that there was enough capacity any necessary testing to be done, when there patently wasn't. Within a month of deciding that testing was actually important and that there wasn't enough capacity in the right places, he did 80,000 tests in one day.

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

16 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Covid-19 aftermath exacerbated by Brexit. Or the other way around.

For or against Brexit, if you think about it objectivity not being in the EU any more has probably saved us billions in not being turned upside down and shaken to pay Europe's covid 19 bill.

[restlessnomad]

10 minutes ago, LadyG said:

You are not forced to gamble, just as no one is forced to go to the theatre, or McDonald's,  or to shop at Tesco.

You don't have to gamble to enjoy racing. I am not a "gambler", but I worked in racing for many years, sometimes  had a bet, often lost, sometimes won.

 To me, working i the thoroughbred industry was nothing to do with betting. It is a sport.

There is  lot of money involved, and the gambling industry entertain many people, eg Bingo

Of course the industry makes profits, why else would they be in business. You are not forced to participate, but no doubt your pension funds invest!

 

 

 

 I think high street betting shops are taking money from people who are impulsive, addictive and not-good-with-money (basically poor ppl). Not every gambler is rich.

I am not talking about older folks who enjoy a bit of gambling, for fun.... unfortunately you cannot stop people from losing everything.

There are a lot of govt regulation to stop it, the £2 limit was good.

About racing, am on the fence about it because they kill the injured horse(with the amount of money generated, am sure injured horses could be take care of by the industry). Am not sure what percentage of retired grayhound don't end up dead.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by restlessnomad

[Higgs]

 

My brother rang me yesterday, he hasn't stopped working. He works for Rolls Royce and about to get on a ferry, with another engine. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[restlessnomad]

15 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Economic catastrophes happen with some regularity. It's time the taxpayer was given a break. Put money away for the inevitable rainy day. 

 

 

If I was a business owner, I would respond to push and pull of the industry and my peers not what 'might happen'. I will fight for people when wage goes up, will pay less if labour is cheap. I will probably maintain fund for lean period but not at the cost of business growth. Basically do everything that my peers do, while trying to stay afloat.

The only way that can happen is via regulation, which puts me and my peers at same level of disadvantage/advantage. Nobody is forcing govt to pay up btw.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by restlessnomad

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

For or against Brexit, if you think about it objectivity not being in the EU any more has probably saved us billions in not being turned upside down and shaken to pay Europe's covid 19 bill.

Yeah but of course those that liked playing Golf and being told what to do by club administrators will never accept the reality of it all.

[peterboat]

27 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Covid-19 aftermath exacerbated by Brexit. Or the other way around.

I think we will do better than the EU Ian, leaving is definitely the best thing we have done! The EU would have bled us dry to keep themselves going 

[Higgs]

5 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

If I was a business owner, I would respond to push and pull of the industry and my peers not what 'might happen'. I will fight for people when wage goes up, will pay less if labour is cheap. I will probably maintain fund for lean period but not at the cost of business growth. Basically do everything that my peers do, while trying to stay afloat.

The only way that can happen is via regulation, which puts me and my peers at same level of disadvantage/advantage. Nobody is forcing govt to pay up btw.

 

 

Well, if it wasn't for the employees, I'd say, go bust in this situation. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[restlessnomad]

11 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Well, if it wasn't for the employees, I'd say, go bust in this situation. 

 

 

govt allows businesses to go bust regularly. In fact many businesses dont survive their second year. However during a period where huge number of businesses (which are otherwise fundamentally sound) are at risk, many due to cash flow issues, govt have to be pragmatic. Without businesses, they not only lose business tax, also majority of personal tax.

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by restlessnomad

[Higgs]

18 minutes ago, peterboat said:

I think we will do better than the EU Ian, leaving is definitely the best thing we have done! The EU would have bled us dry to keep themselves going 

 

They'd have bled the taxpayer - the accident victim. 

 

5 minutes ago, restlessnomad said:

govt allows businesses to go bust regularly. In fact many businesses dont survive their second year. However during a period where huge number of businesses (which are otherwise fundamentally sound) are at risk, many due to cash flow issues, govt have to be pragmatic. Without businesses, they not only lose business tax, also majority of personal tax.

 

I'll believe all that, when business foots 100% of the wage bill. 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[Sir Nibble]

23 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

My brother rang me yesterday, he hasn't stopped working. He works for Rolls Royce and about to get on a ferry, with another engine. 

 

 

Nice 2metre separation being ignored there. Both by the two blokes in the foreground and the other two at the left of the picture. No reason why they can't but who cares? It's not real if you don't know someone who's died is it.

[Higgs]

9 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Nice 2metre separation being ignored there. Both by the two blokes in the foreground and the other two at the left of the picture. No reason why they can't but who cares? It's not real if you don't know someone who's died is it.

 

Dear Sir Nibble -it's an archive photo. 

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

1 minute ago, Higgs said:

 

Dear Sir Nibble -it's an archive photo. 

 

 

Oh good, but you did caption it as contemporary. Your mistake or mine?

[Higgs]

1 minute ago, Sir Nibble said:

Oh good, but you did caption it as contemporary. Your mistake or mine?

 

Yours. ?

[Sir Nibble]

5 minutes ago, Higgs said:

 

Yours. ?

Clearly we will have to agree to disagree.

[Higgs]

4 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

Clearly we will have to agree to disagree.

 

I'm not disagreeing with me. You put 2 and 2 together and made the assumption. It's a photo. ?

 

 

[Sir Nibble]

You stated the engine was going on a ferry and illustrated it with a photo of an engine going on a ferry. Reasonable I think to assume the two were connected. It's not worth arguing about.

[Higgs]

24 minutes ago, Sir Nibble said:

You stated the engine was going on a ferry and illustrated it with a photo of an engine going on a ferry. Reasonable I think to assume the two were connected. It's not worth arguing about.

 

It could have been going onto a ferry, but not like that. It's short of its low loader, wheels, and a power unit. And, cover.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Higgs

[George and Dragon]

2 hours ago, Higgs said:

 

Businesses obviously missed an opportunity to plan for the event as well. I haven't noticed that sector not running around like 'headless chickens' with their hands out. Let's hope the commercial sector puts some money away, for the next time. 2008, 2020, Predictions? We're going to have a bigger national debt, more interest to pay, even less money, for the things we need to spend money on. Pretty much the situation, before this problem hit. 

 

Businesses have, in general, been concentrating on maximising dividends rather than building up cash reserves. It looks like a pretty good strategy given that the Chancellor is quite happy to give away taxpayers' money to bail them out.

[churchward]

4 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

I disagree

 

There has been a complete failure of leadership from government in every area of this pandemic. At every step of the way, as soon as they have been forced by public pressure and the media to give a particular aspect their attention, or do better, they seem to have made it happen.

 

Assuming PPE is now flowing in numbers big enough to satisfy demand, that is precisely what happened. Nurses and other front line staff made us aware that there wasn't enough PPE, then they started getting the virus, and some died. The media made an issue of it and, eventually, Hancock seemed to get his act together, (slowly). Prior to this the government stance was that there was plenty of PPE, and there was a reduction in standards. He even blamed the users for using it wrong!!

 

Testing was another prime example of this "policy". Government policy was that enough was being done, and it wasn't actually that critical. Then, when the media began to put pressure on him, the message changed to it being important but that there was enough capacity any necessary testing to be done, when there patently wasn't. Within a month of deciding that testing was actually important and that there wasn't enough capacity in the right places, he did 80,000 tests in one day.

 

 

That is a very loosey-goosey kind of logic.  To ramp up testing capacity it has taken the opening and staffing of several large new laboratories in Milton Keynes and elsewhere with another new one coming on stream next week in Cambridge.  This has not been a thing that can or could be done over night.

 

However, even if it was the case how terrible that a government should take note of the situation and public opinion and do something about it!  The alternative is to view that as a success. Time has seemingly slowed down it all seems long ago when this all started but it is not that long.

 

I am not saying that mistakes have not been made or that it could have been done faster or better but the UK is not unique in health care workers catching and dying from Covid-18 or being short of PPE in fact it would be unique for either to not have happened in a country suffering from this virus.