Removing Calorifier - Engine cooling question...

[WillCful]

Hi, 

 

I’m planning to remove my calorifier, it will be replaced with an instant gas water heater for the time being and possibly a new calorifier in the long term if we think we’ll need one...

 

Anyway, I assume I can just cut and then connect together the feed and return pipes to the engine? Does anyone know if this will cause cooling problems for the engine in the long term? 
 

Thanks! 
Will

[Slim]

4 minutes ago, WillCful said:

Hi, 

 

I’m planning to remove my calorifier, it will be replaced with an instant gas water heater for the time being and possibly a new calorifier in the long term if we think we’ll need one...

 

Anyway, I assume I can just cut and then connect together the feed and return pipes to the engine? Does anyone know if this will cause cooling problems for the engine in the long term? 
 

Thanks! 
Will

I can see no reason why it should. 

Frank

[Stilllearning]

8 minutes ago, WillCful said:

Hi, 

 

I’m planning to remove my calorifier, it will be replaced with an instant gas water heater for the time being and possibly a new calorifier in the long term if we think we’ll need one...

 

Anyway, I assume I can just cut and then connect together the feed and return pipes to the engine? Does anyone know if this will cause cooling problems for the engine in the long term? 
 

Thanks! 
Will

Why not leave it in place, connected, then if you still go ahead with the gas hot water system, you will have a back up for when the time comes that the gas runs out when you are in mid shower?

[WillCful]

9 minutes ago, Slim said:

I can see no reason why it should. 

Frank

Right, me neither ?

6 minutes ago, Stilllearning said:

Why not leave it in place, connected, then if you still go ahead with the gas hot water system, you will have a back up for when the time comes that the gas runs out when you are in mid shower?

Its not a boat sized calorifier, more like a house sized immersion tank... it just takes up lots of space. I’ve lived away from gas mains before so I’m no stranger to gas running out, the key, always have a backup cylinder! ? 

 

If we refit a calorifier in the future we’ll get an appropriately sized one that can be mounted horizontally under the bed I think...  but happy with a gas heater for now. 

[Stilllearning]

1 minute ago, WillCful said:

Right, me neither ?

Its not a boat sized calorifier, more like a house sized immersion tank... it just takes up lots of space. I’ve lived away from gas mains before so I’m no stranger to gas running out, the key, always have a backup cylinder! ? 

 

If we refit a calorifier in the future we’ll get an appropriately sized one that can be mounted horizontally under the bed I think...  but happy with a gas heater for now. 

Upright tanks tend to be better, I think.

Anyway, yes removing the tank will have no noticeable effect on engine cooling, but an it were me, having had both systems I would just replace the existing tank with an upright calorifier, perhaps in a better place. Boaters run engines, thus the hot water is “free”, but gas isn’t.

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

Upright tanks tend to be better, I think.

Anyway, yes removing the tank will have no noticeable effect on engine cooling, but an it were me, having had both systems I would just replace the existing tank with an upright calorifier, perhaps in a better place. Boaters run engines, thus the hot water is “free”, but gas isn’t.

 

But also fit a two way valve so the hot water is supplied form either the calorifier OR the gas water heater but never both. Gas when tied up and engine heat when cruising.

[Stilllearning]

32 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

But also fit a two way valve so the hot water is supplied form either the calorifier OR the gas water heater but never both. Gas when tied up and engine heat when cruising.

Yes, I should have mentioned that, thanks.

[Mike Adams]

I think if you disconnect the pipes from the calorifier you should put a shut off valve in the line. I believe in some engines the low resistance path between the 'heater' take off pipes can cause over heating or over cooling. I don't know which engine you have but it shouldn't do any harm to stop the flow through the pipes.

[system 4-50]

When I first did this I connected the inlet and outlet directly and used two bits of wood bolted together to squeeze the hose closed as I was advised that this was better for my Beta 43 to be closed.  Now I have fitted a tap in the hose line bought from carbuilder.com because it looks neater!

[Eeyore]

1 hour ago, Mike Adams said:

I think if you disconnect the pipes from the calorifier you should put a shut off valve in the line. I believe in some engines the low resistance path between the 'heater' take off pipes can cause over heating or over cooling. I don't know which engine you have but it shouldn't do any harm to stop the flow through the pipes.

Very much what I was going to post. Coolant will take the path of least resistance, so even with the thermostat open it will still find it easier to circulate around a small loop, causing overheating, rather than to flow to the keel tank (or whatever cooling arrangement your engine has in place). A piece of suitable sized bar and two jubilee clips to join the cut ends of the hoses is the simplest solution. You could of course find blanking plugs to replace the hose connections on the engine, but then you would have to change them back if you fitted a new calorifier.

 

[Tony Brooks]

17 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

Very much what I was going to post. Coolant will take the path of least resistance, so even with the thermostat open it will still find it easier to circulate around a small loop, causing overheating, rather than to flow to the keel tank (or whatever cooling arrangement your engine has in place). A piece of suitable sized bar and two jubilee clips to join the cut ends of the hoses is the simplest solution. You could of course find blanking plugs to replace the hose connections on the engine, but then you would have to change them back if you fitted a new calorifier. If I wee not sure about the engine I would join with a valve that could be opened or closed to suit.

 

17 minutes ago, Eeyore said:

 

 

In general yes but a little care is needed. Some engines used the cab heater or in our case the calorifier circuit as the thermostat by pass to ensure coolant continued to circulated around the engine when the thermostat is closed.  Blocking the circuit on those engines may cause localised boiling in the head and if that happens the head is likely to fur up and the you get cracking.

 

Actually most engines have a thermostat by pass port and unless you have  a bypass thermostat soem coolant will always bypass the skin tank.

[WillCful]

Thanks for the info everyone, I should have said, I have a Barrus Shire 38 engine. 

So it is better to block the engine inlet/outlet calorifier pipes than to create a smaller loop? 
 

If I install a valve in this loop will there ever be a need to open the valve? Eg if the engine was ‘over cooling’ ? 

[Tony Brooks]

8 minutes ago, WillCful said:

Thanks for the info everyone, I should have said, I have a Barrus Shire 38 engine. 

So it is better to block the engine inlet/outlet calorifier pipes than to create a smaller loop? 
 

If I install a valve in this loop will there ever be a need to open the valve? Eg if the engine was ‘over cooling’ ? 

I don't know details about the Barrus cooling system so can't say if the calorifier circuit is also the thermostat bypass circuit. If it is not the keeping the valve closed should not have any effect on the cooling. If it is the bypass circuit the keeping the valve closed might cause localised overheating/boiling in the engine during warm up. I think you need to consult Barrus unless another member has the technical info to advise.

 

I suspect over heating would be a more likely effect if the valve was left open rather than over cooling because the  hot coolant has a path that bypasses the skin tank.

[WillCful]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I don't know details about the Barrus cooling system so can't say if the calorifier circuit is also the thermostat bypass circuit. If it is not the keeping the valve closed should not have any effect on the cooling. If it is the bypass circuit the keeping the valve closed might cause localised overheating/boiling in the engine during warm up. I think you need to consult Barrus unless another member has the technical info to advise.

 

I suspect over heating would be a more likely effect if the valve was left open rather than over cooling because the  hot coolant has a path that bypasses the skin tank.

That’s great, thank you Tony.

 

I’ll talk to Barrus. 

[Tony Brooks]

Just now, WillCful said:

That’s great, thank you Tony.

 

I’ll talk to Barrus. 

O bet they will say just cap the engine connections but I don't know enough to say that.

[WillCful]

16 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

O bet they will say just cap the engine connections but I don't know enough to say that.

No problem, it's best to be sure!

[blackrose]

On 27/04/2020 at 15:56, Tony Brooks said:

 

But also fit a two way valve so the hot water is supplied form either the calorifier OR the gas water heater but never both. Gas when tied up and engine heat when cruising.

I thought it was called a L-port valve, or perhaps you were thinking of something different?

 

L-port rather than T-port