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Epping stove - what size roof collar and flue?


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I’m trying to move my Epping but roof space for the flue exit is tight - the cabin sides curve sharply inwards so the gap between them and the slide diminishes rapidly. (The slide is the traditional timber type which adds width.)

Anyway the present collar seems on the large side - the internal diameter is 5 1/2 ins and the overall width (footprint width) of the collar is 8ins. How does that compare with others?

And given that the exit from the stove is a  5x2 oval does the flue really need to be

4 1/2 ins?

 

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6 minutes ago, starman said:

I’m trying to move my Epping but roof space for the flue exit is tight - the cabin sides curve sharply inwards so the gap between them and the slide diminishes rapidly. (The slide is the traditional timber type which adds width.)

Anyway the present collar seems on the large side - the internal diameter is 5 1/2 ins and the overall width (footprint width) of the collar is 8ins. How does that compare with others?

And given that the exit from the stove is a  5x2 oval does the flue really need to be

4 1/2 ins?

 

Has yours not got the smoke box which sits on top of the oval part but has a round bit for the flue

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28 minutes ago, Tonka said:

Has yours not got the smoke box which sits on top of the oval part but has a round bit for the flue

Yes it has - I know that determines the flue size at that point but the pipe itself could be reduced down from that. 
Does a stove with a tiny firebox really need a 41/2 in flue?

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13 minutes ago, starman said:

Yes it has - I know that determines the flue size at that point but the pipe itself could be reduced down from that. 
Does a stove with a tiny firebox really need a 41/2 in flue?

BSS and Soliftec guidance is that flue must be 100mm minimum diameter.

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The advantage of 41/2 in flue pipe is that it is easy to get hold of and can be had in various thicknesses.  A special miht be harder to teplace in a hurry.

 

If you are tight for roof space a fabricated collar might be easiest.  10mm plate cut to fit space on roof, short length of 5 in pipe welded on underneath to fit the flue and a chimney sized pipe welded on top. Securing holes to suit roof stiffeners.  Don't forget a hole in the middle.?

N

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25 minutes ago, BEngo said:

If you are tight for roof space a fabricated collar might be easiest.  10mm plate cut to fit space on roof, short length of 5 in pipe welded on underneath to fit the flue and a chimney sized pipe welded on top. Securing holes to suit roof stiffeners.  Don't forget a hole in the middle.?

N

That is a good plan - I can’t quite see why mine is such a monster; half inch thick casting, weighs a ton. 

Will 5in pipe leave enough clearance for flue packing?

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I left a pattern for an original GU Woolwich collar at Brinklow, they were having some cast so would be worth asking them. They also make a yarwoods type which sounds similar to the one Bengo mentioned above.

 The pattern i left has a double offset and has a very small footprint. 

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4 hours ago, starman said:

I’m trying to move my Epping but roof space for the flue exit is tight - the cabin sides curve sharply inwards so the gap between them and the slide diminishes rapidly. (The slide is the traditional timber type which adds width.)

Anyway the present collar seems on the large side - the internal diameter is 5 1/2 ins and the overall width (footprint width) of the collar is 8ins. 

 

On Fulbourne the flange of the collar is tapered on the end towards the back of the boat, in order to fit between the handrail and the slide. It looks to me as if someone has taken an angle grinder to the standard product to make it fit better.

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This is the one i mentioned above. I had the original repaired professionally to make a pattern for casting a new one, it was cracked and a chunk was missing. 

IMG_20181104_183550.jpg

IMG_20181104_183558.jpg

Edited by BWM
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4 hours ago, starman said:

Thanks for pic - this is my problem: where it was and where it needs to be!

 

40AADF82-638D-436B-AEFD-3845A676E4F7.jpeg

Not as much room as the picture suggests, 130mm handrail to slide at the back and 230mm at the front of slide to handrail. The base of the collar is 150mm at the widest point. You can see the available space and tapering here.

FB_IMG_1535450880623.jpg

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25 minutes ago, BWM said:

Not as much room as the picture suggests, 130mm handrail to slide at the back and 230mm at the front of slide to handrail. The base of the collar is 150mm at the widest point.

So a little less than 10mm to grind off each side of the collar?  Half an hour’s work, surely?

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

So a little less than 10mm to grind off each side of the collar?  Half an hour’s work, surely?

Didn't need any grinding on mine, and i didn't see any dimensions given by Starman. The 130mm is the gap at the extreme end, where the cabin finishes. 

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

So a little less than 10mm to grind off each side of the collar?  Half an hour’s work, surely?

Depends what it is made of.  An Aluminium collar would be a reet booger to grind that much off.  A cast iron one would take longer than half an hour, especially with a small grinder even if you attacked it with a cutting disc. 

The other problem is whether there is enough meat in the collar itself to stand all that metal removal.  There is usually a rim round the underside collar to give an easy sealing face.  Grind/cut all the rim away at some point and you will have hell getting it to stay sealed.

 

Not to mention the immutable tendency for at least one collar bolt hole to coincide with a roof stiffener.  Only to be discovered after you have cut the main hole.

 

N

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2 hours ago, WotEver said:

So a little less than 10mm to grind off each side of the collar?  Half an hour’s work, surely?

No that’s BWM’s dimensions not mine. Mine is (I haven’t got exact figures with me) approx 8 ins total width with a 61/2ins outside dia collar to take the flue pipe. 
If I ground it to fit the space I need it to fit  there would be virtually nothing left at the sides to seal onto roof. 

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3 hours ago, BWM said:

Not as much room as the picture suggests, 130mm handrail to slide at the back and 230mm at the front of slide to handrail. The base of the collar is 150mm at the widest point. You can see the available space and tapering here.

FB_IMG_1535450880623.jpg

Thanks for the extra pic: I’ll check your dimensions against mine but looks pretty similar. 
I rang Brinklow but only an answering machine. I guess they are on full or partial lockdown. 

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29 minutes ago, starman said:

No that’s BWM’s dimensions not mine. Mine is (I haven’t got exact figures with me) approx 8 ins total width with a 61/2ins outside dia collar to take the flue pipe. 
If I ground it to fit the space I need it to fit  there would be virtually nothing left at the sides to seal onto roof. 

Ahh, okay :)

57 minutes ago, BWM said:

Didn't need any grinding on mine, and i didn't see any dimensions given by Starman. The 130mm is the gap at the extreme end, where the cabin finishes. 

Gotcha

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19 hours ago, starman said:

Thanks for the extra pic: I’ll check your dimensions against mine but looks pretty similar. 
I rang Brinklow but only an answering machine. I guess they are on full or partial lockdown. 

I think they have a Facebook page, might be worth trying a message through that? It's about as small as they get, 5 1/8" chimney size, which is more in keeping with a narrow cabin top imo.

Edited by BWM
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Maybe contact Warstock Engineering and they might just cast one in aluminium for you. They are based in Stockton and do a lot of stuff for Colecraft.  I suspect it all depends on if they have a suitable pattern available. They cast a wedge for me to get my chimney sitting straight, they made it in less than two days, in fact I think it was only one day, and the cost was surprisingly reasonable. (and personal delivery to the boat but I was in their area).

 

..............Dave

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On 23/04/2020 at 16:20, starman said:

I’m trying to move my Epping but roof space for the flue exit is tight - the cabin sides curve sharply inwards so the gap between them and the slide diminishes rapidly. (The slide is the traditional timber type which adds width.)

Anyway the present collar seems on the large side - the internal diameter is 5 1/2 ins and the overall width (footprint width) of the collar is 8ins. How does that compare with others?

And given that the exit from the stove is a  5x2 oval does the flue really need to be

4 1/2 ins?

 

Instead of repositioning the collar, is it not possible to adjust the flue inside the cabin to fit?

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2 hours ago, monkeyhanger said:

Instead of repositioning the collar, is it not possible to adjust the flue inside the cabin to fit?

Unfortunately not. I’m building a back cabin - the boat didn’t have one before - and the flue exits right in the middle of the   drop cupboard section! The stove itself is a bit too far forward as well but that is easier to deal with (I think!)

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You may find it easier to fabricate a collar out of mild steel. I did this on my boat when I fitted my Kabola. You can then make it any size you wish. Then the problem of fitting the chimney in the space you have may arise. You may have to get one custom made with a slightly smaller diameter. I can recommend someone if you wish.                              Glad to see that you got your stove in the end. Did you buy it from Sarah?     Jack

Edited by monkeyhanger
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10 minutes ago, monkeyhanger said:

You may find it easier to fabricate a collar out of mild steel. I did this on my boat when I fitted my Kabola. You can then make it any size you wish. Then the problem of fitting the chimney in the space you have may arise. You may have to get one custom made with a slightly smaller diameter. I can recommend someone if you wish.                              Glad to see that you got your stove in the end. Did you buy it from Sarah?     Jack

I still have my old stove at the moment - reduced to a pile of bits! Still deciding what to do with it. 
Yes I might in the end have to get a collar made - who do you recommend?

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