Electrical Again

[Old Son]

I hope you don't mind me asking a non boating question on here but I doubt there is more knowledge about batteries anywhere else!!

 

I have a 1964 Lodola motorcycle which spends the vast majority of its time under cover in my garage. I have a 2 year old 6V, 10AH lead acid battery on maintenance charge alongside. I tried to start the bike this weekend. The bike ran for about 20 seconds and then stopped and would not start again. The bike is kick started. I checked the battery and it showed 4.8 volts on a multimeter. I've put the battery back on charge and it is being charged at around 6.4 volts. My question, how can I check my battery is still OK? Can I disconnect for 24 hours and recheck the voltage or do I need to load the battery somehow?

 

Although the battery has only been on the bike once it seems to me like the battery might be dead. Is this what should be expected after 2 years on a maintenance charger?

 

Thanks

[jacko264]

A little different to your question  you could take a spark plug out and see if there's a spark when kicking the engine over 

also how old is the fuel in the tank if older then 3 months old it maybe that and jets have blocked up

[Bee]

I am not good at electrical stuff but how is the electrolyte? I have noticed that with the unsophisticated system that I have that long periods on charge - even a ,maintanance charge - can use up water. Slightly different but I remove the boat batteries in the autumn, take them home and charge them once a month or so and then disconnect them. They are in the conservatory and have nice dry tops and terminals too.

[Tony Brooks]

I would say a good first test would be to let it stand for 24 hours and see what the voltage is then.

 

Good point about checking the level (if its possible) and an even better point re stale pertrol etc.

 

I do wonder if the battery has a shorting cell but looking for one cell gassing when on charge would  be a fair indicator of that.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[Tacet]

If this is the correct wiring diagram, then it is a battery and coil ignition system

 

http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/pdfs/1959_Lodola_235.pdf

 

That's the trouble with this new technology - a magneto does not require a charged battery.  But running for only 20 seconds seems odd - the 75w dynamo should have been capable of replacing the power used by the spark.  And 4.8v from a battery that's been on charge seems strange too. 

[Onewheeler]

If it's been on a "maintenance" charge for two years, the battery may have cooked (depending on the charger).

[Old Son]

Thanks everyone. I have taken the battery off charge and will check the voltage tomorrow.

 

Once I know the battery is good I'll drain the tank and put in new petrol.

 

I have two other modernish motor bikes that have sat on charge a similar amount of time. Both Japanese. Both started first time and ran no problem. Petrol same age as that in the Lodola. Who'd own a Moto Guzzi?

[WotEver]

6 hours ago, Old Son said:

Who'd own a Moto Guzzi?

Back in my biking days that was a question I often asked myself   I never really saw the point.

 

Good luck with the battery.

[Karen Lea Rainey]

I had the same problem a few years ago, apparently it's fairly common when bikes aren't  used for a few months at a time, you have enough fuel in the carb to run it for about 30 seconds.......... the needle float which pumps / goes up and down gets sticky with fuel when not used. It basically let's a very small amount of fuel through after you turn it off, then if you go back to it in say 6 hours,....... it will start again but cut out again after another 30 seconds. Take your carb off give it a clean and reassemble. It worked for me.

[mrsmelly]

17 hours ago, Old Son said:

Thanks everyone. I have taken the battery off charge and will check the voltage tomorrow.

 

Once I know the battery is good I'll drain the tank and put in new petrol.

 

I have two other modernish motor bikes that have sat on charge a similar amount of time. Both Japanese. Both started first time and ran no problem. Petrol same age as that in the Lodola. Who'd own a Moto Guzzi?

Sadly this is why peeps in the know always buy Japanes Bikes ( I did ) Japanese cars ( Both mine are ) and a Japanese boat engine ( Mine is again ) they are simply streets ahead of any other country. To be fair though your Guzzi has style and is an awesome design and its only a toy so why not ?

[Ex Brummie]

I recall in 1964, when I had a new BSA Bantam D7, which was the first to feature coil ignition, that I had similar problems, with the engine cutting out if you pressed the horn button or applied the rear brake and the light came on. This was traced to the rectifier which was one of a faulty batch. After standing though, I'd look at the fuel supply as already mentioned.

[blackrose]

Can someone explain to me why the battery matters if you are kick-starting the bike?

 

I have a Honda petrol generator with an electric start but the 6v motorbike-type battery has been dead since I bought the generator second-hand 14 years ago. It starts on the second pull with the hand recoil every time.

[Tony Brooks]

23 minutes ago, blackrose said:

Can someone explain to me why the battery matters if you are kick-starting the bike?

 

I have a Honda petrol generator with an electric start but the 6v motorbike-type battery has been dead since I bought the generator second-hand 14 years ago. It starts on the second pull with the hand recoil every time.

It depends upon the ignition system.  If its a magneto (spinning permanent magnets) than it won't need a battery. If its coil ignition like a car then it will except if you push started it fast enough the dynamo/alternator might produce enough current to feed the coil so it would start.

 

Ni idea about your generator without inspecting it but it may have a magneto ignition plus an electric start option.

[Old Son]

Well after 22 hours with no charge the battery has dropped to 4.2 Volts so I think it's fair to say the battery is U/S. I definitely need a battery to start, when I got the bike it had been newly refurbished. It would not start. I checked and there was no battery. I fitted a battery and it started first kick. I think I'll buy a new battery and try again.

 

With regards the petrol, I generally turn off the tank tap and let the carburettor empty to stop the engine. That way there should be no stale petrol left in the pipes or the carburettor.  Maybe that's not the right thing to do. I also added some petrol additive that extends the life of petrol when added to the tank.

 

Thanks for all your input, it's a pretty little bike so I'll stay with it and try to get it running once again.

[Tony Brooks]

23 minutes ago, Old Son said:

 

With regards the petrol, I generally turn off the tank tap and let the carburettor empty to stop the engine. That way there should be no stale petrol left in the pipes or the carburettor.  Maybe that's not the right thing to do. I also added some petrol additive that extends the life of petrol when added to the tank.

 

Thanks for all your input, it's a pretty little bike so I'll stay with it and try to get it running once again.

 

I think that should be fine as long as the fuel tap does not leak but I have had exceptionally very old petrol deposit a sort of fine sand in the bottom of the tank ad f that happened some could get into the carb and block a jet when you turn the tap on.

[Karen Lea Rainey]

It doesn't  matter how you turn the engine off, by fuel shut off valve or the key.....its the jet/ needle that the fuel flows through that gets a bit clogged up over the time with fuel sediment in the tank. Gravity feeds your carbs from your fuel tank, almost certainly a blocked fuel needle.

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, Old Son said:

With regards the petrol, I generally turn off the tank tap and let the carburettor empty to stop the engine. That way there should be no stale petrol left in the pipes or the carburettor.  Maybe that's not the right thing to do.

No that’s fine and exactly the right thing to do. I always do the same with my chainsaw. 

[Old Son]

By way of an update, fitted a new battery and it started 2nd kick. I think the carburettor needs some adjustment because it doesn't like ticking over on its own but it sounds sweet enough. Thank you all for your help.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

On 21/04/2020 at 14:07, Karen Lea Rainey said:

It doesn't  matter how you turn the engine off, by fuel shut off valve or the key.....its the jet/ needle that the fuel flows through that gets a bit clogged up over the time with fuel sediment in the tank. Gravity feeds your carbs from your fuel tank, almost certainly a blocked fuel needle.

Another possibility is that the needle wears slightly over time. It then doesn't sit 100% straight within the jet and can 'catch' here leading either to fuel starvation or fuel overflowing through the carb. A new needle sorts it, that's if you can find one, took me weeks to find a replacement for my 80's 2 stroke Yamaha.  

[Tony Brooks]

Just for the benefit of non-bikers. I think that we are talking about the float needle valve above, not the long needle that may be fitted to the variable venturi carburettor - if this bike has that sort of carb.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Just for the benefit of non-bikers. I think that we are talking about the float needle valve above, not the long needle that may be fitted to the variable venturi carburettor - if this bike has that sort of carb.

That's right, thanks for the clarification.