Antifreeze refreshment

[fudd]

Good morning. 

I have a Lister HW3. I want to drain the coolant and add fresh antifreeze. I can’t tell what is in there by colour alone and I don’t think I will be able to drain the skin tank completely. I have 20 Ltrs of the pink stuff. Will it cause problems if I mix it with whatever is left in the tank. Thanks. 

[Tracy D'arth]

Can you not vac out the tank?  Seems a shame to contaminate new coolant with old stuff, whatever breed, which will have lost its anticorrosion properties.

 

Or repeatedly fill with clean water and drain off to at least dilute the old stuff?

[fudd]

8 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

Can you not vac out the tank?  Seems a shame to contaminate new coolant with old stuff, whatever breed, which will have lost its anticorrosion properties.

 

Or repeatedly fill with clean water and drain off to at least dilute the old stuff?

It’s not that easy to drain the tank. It’s actually the bottom of the engine room bilge. Not got a lot of access. 

[Slim]

Having had a similar experience recently might I ask a few questions:-

 

'Pink' Do you know whether its OAT or traditional type.

Do you know whats in your system at present

What is the dilution ratio of the new A/F you have. You may find 20 l is nowhere near enough. Many 'concentrated' anti-freezes available are a 50/50 mix to get proper protection

 

Opinions on mixing OAT and conventional A/F is varied and conflicting. 

 

I found that the only way I could empty my skin tank was with a Pela oil extractor. Slow but you drink many cups of tea?

 

 

 

 

[BEngo]

Rather than change the anti-freeze, which will not have worn out  ( test by putting a yogurt pot  half full in the freezer or ice box) , why not refresh just  the corrosion inhibitor?   Available from Screwfix ( or was prior to the kung flu, I haven't looked recently). You will need at least one 500ml bottle. Tip it in and circulate - this may mean putting it in somewhere other than the header tank.   Again you can test by putting a few clean wire nails or steel screws in a jar with some coolant.  If they have not gone rusty after 3-4 days all is well.

 

N

 

[David Mack]

Don't put antifreeze in your refreshments. It's not good for you!

[Rickent]

I was led to believe that mixing blue anti freeze and pink causes it to coagulate.

[Tonka]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

Rather than change the anti-freeze, which will not have worn out  ( test by putting a yogurt pot  half full in the freezer or ice box) , why not refresh just  the corrosion inhibitor?   Available from Screwfix ( or was prior to the kung flu, I haven't looked recently). You will need at least one 500ml bottle. Tip it in and circulate - this may mean putting it in somewhere other than the header tank.   Again you can test by putting a few clean wire nails or steel screws in a jar with some coolant.  If they have not gone rusty after 3-4 days all is well.

 

N

 

It is not the freezing bit that runs out but the anti corrosive material that degrades

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, Rickent said:

I was led to believe that mixing blue anti freeze and pink causes it to coagulate.

I think its more that the corrosion inhibitors tend to precipitate out of the coolant and on cars block small cooling galleries and pipes.

[BEngo]

17 minutes ago, Tonka said:

It is not the freezing bit that runs out but the anti corrosive material that degrades

That is why I suggested the OP renew his.

N

[Chewbacka]

1 hour ago, Rickent said:

I was led to believe that mixing blue anti freeze and pink causes it to coagulate.

It depends.  Some old (typically blue) coolants used silicates as the corrosion inhibitors.  When mixed with some of the newer coolants the silicates precipitate out like a fine 'sand'.  In vehicles with a radiator it can (and did) block the fine bore tubes in the radiator.  In a boat there are no fine tubes, but the 'sand' is abrasive so if the stuff circulates it isn't going to do the water pump impellor any good.

 

Some of the newer coolants (also often not blue) are sold as universal as they claim they will happily mix with all other coolants  with out problems.

 

In your case as we don't know what is in there and we don't know what you are adding it is impossible to say what would happen if mixed.

 

So all I can say is as much as possible get the old stuff out, but a doubt a little is going to do much harm, but I am not an expert.

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Chewbacka

[fudd]

Thanks everyone. I’ll do my best. Stay safe and well. 

[bizzard]

I see fudd your in Essex. Your water is probably very hard and lime scaley. I would not use tap water in a cooling or heating system. I use rain water or distilled-deironized water, cheap from motor factors.

[Chewbacka]

The anti corrosion additives will last a couple of years longer with di water compared to tap water, I got mine on eBay - about £35 for 50litres delivered.

[MtB]

10 hours ago, bizzard said:

I would not use tap water in a cooling or heating system. I use rain water or distilled-deironized water, cheap from motor factors.

 

I agree. There is about an ounce of water scale in 50 litres of hard tap water, desperate to precipitate all over the inside of your engine.

 

You can make you own distilled water by distilling some tap water....

 

 

 

 

Or canal water!

 

 

[PeterF]

Morris Ankorsol engine coolant anti corrosion fluid has been mentioned before on the forum as an option in this situation.

 

Morris Ankorsol

[blackrose]

20 hours ago, BEngo said:

Rather than change the anti-freeze, which will not have worn out  ( test by putting a yogurt pot  half full in the freezer or ice box) , why not refresh just  the corrosion inhibitor?   Available from Screwfix ( or was prior to the kung flu, I haven't looked recently). You will need at least one 500ml bottle. Tip it in and circulate - this may mean putting it in somewhere other than the header tank.   Again you can test by putting a few clean wire nails or steel screws in a jar with some coolant.  If they have not gone rusty after 3-4 days all is well.

 

N

 

 

Yes, that's what I'd do.

https://www.morrislubricantsonline.co.uk/ankorsol-anti-corrosion-fluid.html

 

Sorry, just seen the post above!

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by blackrose

[blackrose]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree. There is about an ounce of water scale in 50 litres of hard tap water, desperate to precipitate all over the inside of your engine.

 

 

I've never had a problem using tap water + antifreeze in any water-cooled engine I have ever owned over the last 40 years. A good antifreeze/anticorrosive will help prevent scaling.

 

Do many people use de-ionised or distilled water in their car engines?

[ditchcrawler]

4 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree. There is about an ounce of water scale in 50 litres of hard tap water, desperate to precipitate all over the inside of your engine.

 

You can make you own distilled water by distilling some tap water....

 

 

 

 

Or canal water!

 

 

We always used deionised water in the coolant systems of our engines offshore. The generators were unpressurised systems so often needed a bit of a top up  

[gbclive]

2 hours ago, PeterF said:

Morris Ankorsol engine coolant anti corrosion fluid has been mentioned before on the forum as an option in this situation.

 

Morris Ankorsol

Some more info here from an earlier thread - in short, good for 2 years but would then need changing.

 

[fudd]

I have decided to try and drain the system, but for the life of me I can’t find the return from the skin tank. Surely it wouldn’t just have one hose going to it. 

[WotEver]

On 17/04/2020 at 13:35, BEngo said:

the kung flu

[blackrose]

On 18/04/2020 at 06:30, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I agree. There is about an ounce of water scale in 50 litres of hard tap water, desperate to precipitate all over the inside of your engine.

 

You can make you own distilled water by distilling some tap water....

 

 

https://www.hyperlube.com/blog/blog/why-you-should-never-use-distilled-water-in-your-cooling-system/

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

https://www.hyperlube.com/blog/blog/why-you-should-never-use-distilled-water-in-your-cooling-system/

@Dr Bob, as our resident chemist does this make sense?

[ditchcrawler]

5 hours ago, blackrose said:

 

https://www.hyperlube.com/blog/blog/why-you-should-never-use-distilled-water-in-your-cooling-system/

When we changed or topped up the coolant on our generators Offshore we used Distilled or  de ionised water water to stop scale build up on the cooling system. These engines running 24/7 were clocking up a high hours run each year