Thinking on expanding WBWS

[W+T]

Morning all. 

 

Since i started up my Waynes Boat Works Services it has got busy and in all aspects of boating but also in ways i am unsure about and if i can do these jobs legally. Being electrics, i get calls for LPG jobs and there i need to go LPG registered, which once all this Virus is over i will be going into. 

 

Its the electrics i am unsure about, a week or so back  i sent emails out to a few BSS inspectors but no reply as yet. Looked online and it talks about marine electrician courses, then only mentions ships and sea etc. Nothing about inland water craft and smaller boats. In the BSS all it says is a `competent person`  i like to think i am

 

Any BSS examiners or folk know the deal here with it in either 12v or 240v please. On what courses if any are needed.  

 

Captain Faffer

[Jen-in-Wellies]

<cynic>The big money would be in arranging to make boat electrics professional only, then providing the accredited courses and mandatory regular refreshers.</cynic>

Good luck with the business, whichever way you decide to take it.

[Tonka]

29 minutes ago, W+T said:

Morning all. 

 

Since i started up my Waynes Boat Works Services it has got busy and in all aspects of boating but also in ways i am unsure about and if i can do these jobs legally. Being electrics, i get calls for LPG jobs and there i need to go LPG registered, which once all this Virus is over i will be going into. 

 

Its the electrics i am unsure about, a week or so back  i sent emails out to a few BSS inspectors but no reply as yet. Looked online and it talks about marine electrician courses, then only mentions ships and sea etc. Nothing about inland water craft and smaller boats. In the BSS all it says is a `competent person`  i like to think i am

 

Any BSS examiners or folk know the deal here with it in either 12v or 240v please. On what courses if any are needed.  

 

Captain Faffer

self competency is the biggest risk to Health and Safety. A numpty who thinks he knows best is dangerous. I am not saying you are a numpty.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

7 minutes ago, Tonka said:

self competency is the biggest risk to Health and Safety. A numpty who thinks he knows best is dangerous. I am not saying you are a numpty.

The Dunning Kruger effect. Also why everyone thinks they are an above average driver. Including me!

[W+T]

Unimpressed as its not answering the question of courses/qualifications needed. 

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, W+T said:

Unimpressed as its not answering the question of courses/qualifications needed. 

I don't know of a qualification specifically for inland waterways electric, that is why I always question it when someone say qualified or engineer 

[Rob-M]

When we had electrical work done on the boat we went by recommendation rather than looking for someone with bits of paper.

[W+T]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

I don't know of a qualification specifically for inland waterways electric, that is why I always question it when someone say qualified or engineer 

And when they answer your question what do they show you ? 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, W+T said:

Unimpressed as its not answering the question of courses/qualifications needed. 

I'm not sure that the 'market' is big enough to warrant running courses for 'boat wiring'.

 

As a suggestion, if you were to get the "ISO" read, inwardly digest, and rigidly apply it, you would certainly be more competent than many, so called, boat electricians.

 

I believe that both the low-voltage DC and AC specs have now been combined.

 

 

[W+T]

Just now, Rob-M said:

When we had electrical work done on the boat we went by recommendation rather than looking for someone with bits of paper.

Word of mouth works well, but when it comes to LPG and electrics it more being qualified. I can wire out a boat and do LPG but to the standards required who knows until i pass the courses. I have seen scary things on boats i have worked on, LPG mainly and whats daft is they pass BSS, even to no LPG test point. pipe not supported, compression joints full of PTFE. i should hope all DIY fitted.

[Ray T]

Worth getting touch with any of these:

https://www.canaljunction.com/boat/electrics.htm

 

[TheBiscuits]

 

Try this if you really want a certificate:

 

https://britishmarine.co.uk/Events-and-Courses/Training-Courses/BMET-Electrical

 

Not sure anyone cares though, as there is no legal requirement for it (unlike gas work).

[W+T]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Try this if you really want a certificate:

 

https://britishmarine.co.uk/Events-and-Courses/Training-Courses/BMET-Electrical

 

Not sure anyone cares though, as there is no legal requirement for it (unlike gas work).

Thanks for the link, thats an interesting one. 

 

I am surprised that there isnt one for atleast 240v.. Know wonder i couldnt find anything. 

[dor]

3 hours ago, W+T said:

Morning all. 

 

Since i started up my Waynes Boat Works Services it has got busy and in all aspects of boating but also in ways i am unsure about and if i can do these jobs legally. Being electrics, i get calls for LPG jobs and there i need to go LPG registered, which once all this Virus is over i will be going into. 

 

Its the electrics i am unsure about, a week or so back  i sent emails out to a few BSS inspectors but no reply as yet. Looked online and it talks about marine electrician courses, then only mentions ships and sea etc. Nothing about inland water craft and smaller boats. In the BSS all it says is a `competent person`  i like to think i am

 

Any BSS examiners or folk know the deal here with it in either 12v or 240v please. On what courses if any are needed.  

 

Captain Faffer

I too like to think I am competent.  The problem arises when you do work for someone else and something goes wrong and you blow up the boat or the person.  You will then have to prove you were "competent".  I understand that part of proving your competency in the gas world is to have the appropriate GasSafe tickets.  Not sure if there is the equivalent in the boat world (rather than ship world).

[ditchcrawler]

19 minutes ago, W+T said:

Thanks for the link, thats an interesting one. 

 

I am surprised that there isnt one for atleast 240v.. Know wonder i couldnt find anything. 

Its not been that long since any qualification was required for electrical work in houses and I am not sure if there is any for industry (due to being old and out of touch)

[David Mack]

29 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Try this if you really want a certificate:

 

https://britishmarine.co.uk/Events-and-Courses/Training-Courses/BMET-Electrical

 

Not sure anyone cares though, as there is no legal requirement for it (unlike gas work).

That course says it is based on the BMEEA Code of Practice. But as far as I am aware that CoP is not available to non-members of the BMEEA, unlike the ISO standards referred to in the RCD which are available to anyone (at a cost).  

So it's a bit hard for most of us to know whether work on our own boats complies with the Code or not.

[Ray T]

https://www.electriciansforums.net/threads/wiring-a-boat-what-regulations-do-apply.6625/

 

https://uk.boats.com/how-to/12-volt-boat-power-understanding-the-basics/

[MtB]

Wayne, there IS no exam designed to give you a qualification entitled "Inland Waterways Marine Electrician" or anything similar, AFAIK. 

 

This is why courses are hard to find, and those you do find are poorly defined and have no generally recognised exam certificate at the end. 

 

Its also why the BSS only talks about being 'competent', thats the closest they can get to describing someone who knows how to do it.

 

 

 

 

[WotEver]

54 minutes ago, dor said:

The problem arises when you do work for someone else and something goes wrong and you blow up the boat or the person.  You will then have to prove you were "competent". 

I would think that any court would consider that the consequences under those circumstances were ample proof that you were/are not competent (incompetent?) 

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, W+T said:

I am surprised that there isnt one for atleast 240v.. Know wonder i couldnt find anything

The ISO standards referred to by Alan in post #9 cover it all in detail. If you follow those ‘rules’ then you will be 100% competent. If you have any specific queries then I’m sure we could answer them. Gibbo also covers some good ground here: http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/nb_ac_sys.html

[cuthound]

You could do a lot worse than teaching yourself using this site as guidance.

 

http://www.tb-training.co.uk/

 

If you have any queries the great man can answer then himself on this forum.

[pearley]

49 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I would think that any court would consider that the consequences under those circumstances were ample proof that you were/are not competent (incompetent?) 

I would like to think any professional working on a boat would have appropriate liability insurance. It's 14 years since I last took out this sort of insurance (as a vehicle electrician) but pretty sure I was asked for proof of competence.

[David Mack]

17 minutes ago, pearley said:

I would like to think any professional working on a boat would have appropriate liability insurance. It's 14 years since I last took out this sort of insurance (as a vehicle electrician) but pretty sure I was asked for proof of competence.

Which is a bit difficult if you are largely self-taught.

[robtheplod]

The best advertisement is previous work pictures and reviews - lots of satisfied customers!  Start out by doing jobs at a discount to get these, setup your website and do a few YouTubes on your installs/methods and the work will roll in....  Very few people will be looking at anything on paper

[Keith M]

There is a definition on the HSE website 

A competent person who is someone who has undertaken a qualification to shown his competency.

One way will be to complete the BMET course and pass the exam.

 

It is a two day course presented by a excellent person