Why is Albion Junction on the BCN main line so called?

[Captain Pegg]

2 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Not sure about that. The Dunkirk branch runs opposite to the Gower Jnct.  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=52.51893&lon=-2.03081&layers=6&right=BingHyb

Gower Junction????

 

I don’t recall ever hearing or seeing it called that before. The place on your map is what is commonly known as Albion Junction, the junction of the BCN New Main Line and the Gower (or alternatively Brades) Branch.

 

13 minutes ago, Andrew Denny said:

Oh, wait... It appears what I was calling Albion Junction is actually Gower Junction!  No wonder I was confused. 

(or rather, no wonder I confused myself :-) 

I’m confused now. ?

 

Is this irony or a genuine revelation?

 

JP

Edited April 16, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[Andrew Denny]

4 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Gower Junction????

 

I don’t recall ever hearing or seeing it called that before. The place on your map is what is commonly known as Albion Junction, the junction of the BCN New Main Line and the Gower (or alternatively Brades) Branch.

 

I’m confused now. ?

 

Is this irony or a genuine revelation?

 

JP

Now I'm completely confused. Oh, just ignore me, sorry ? 

[Captain Pegg]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Denny said:

Now I'm completely confused. Oh, just ignore me, sorry ? 

I think you were right. It’s the Gower Branch, that leaves the BCN main line at Albion Junction which is adjacent to Dunkirk toll island and where there also used to diverge a Dunkirk branch on the opposite side of the canal (that’s the bit that was news to me).

 

I’m interested to know if Flyboy’s Gower Junction was an assumption based on the name of the canal branch or whether it’s a name that has ever been officially or unofficially used.

 

JP

[Andrew Denny]

1 minute ago, Captain Pegg said:

I think you were right. It’s the Gower Branch, that leaves the BCN main line at Albion Junction which is adjacent to Dunkirk toll island and where there also used to diverge a Dunkirk branch on the opposite side of the canal (that’s the bit that was news to me).

 

I’m interested to know if Flyboy’s Gower Junction was an assumption based on the name of the canal branch or whether it’s a name that has ever been officially or unofficially used.

 

JP

I have completely confused everyone with my retraction, and I apologise. It turns out that I was right first time, it is Albion Junction that's at the junction of the Brades Hall and Main Line.  It appears to be that the Albion ironworks is across the canal and some distance away, so how the junction got its name I don't know.  I thank everyone for their contributions, and will gradually tiptoe away from this ?

[Captain Pegg]

1 minute ago, Andrew Denny said:

I have completely confused everyone with my retraction, and I apologise. It turns out that I was right first time, it is Albion Junction that's at the junction of the Brades Hall and Main Line.  It appears to be that the Albion ironworks is across the canal and some distance away, so how the junction got its name I don't know.  I thank everyone for their contributions, and will gradually tiptoe away from this ?

Don’t tiptoe away. I’d sooner discuss the exact shade of grey of the water on each part of the BCN than have to look at threads moaning about how other people boat or are coughing within a quarter of a mile of a moored boat or God forbid Brexit (because unbelievably that’s still being debated on good old CWDF).

 

JP

 

PS - good to see the forum software capitalising my typing of “god”. It is Easter time after all.

[Andrew Denny]

Thanks, JP.  Do you know, I have quite forgotten why I originally asked the question!

[Flyboy]

21 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

I think you were right. It’s the Gower Branch, that leaves the BCN main line at Albion Junction which is adjacent to Dunkirk toll island and where there also used to diverge a Dunkirk branch on the opposite side of the canal (that’s the bit that was news to me).

 

I’m interested to know if Flyboy’s Gower Junction was an assumption based on the name of the canal branch or whether it’s a name that has ever been officially or unofficially used.

 

JP

Yes your right that it's never been called Gower Junction, I was trying to describe the junction of the Gower/main line & Dunkirk branch. Not very well it seems.

[Mike Todd]

4 hours ago, Andrew Denny said:

Where exactly is this? I looked on the NLS at Albion Junction and it doesn't seem to tally (the 1902 maps shows a 'Dunkirk' branch opposite Albion Junction, which isn't evident here, let alone the arms here being under cover. 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16&lat=52.51688&lon=-2.02687&layers=168&b=1

If you click on the original link with the pic it takes you to the BritianFromAbove website where they photo is keyed to a Google map location. In this case it gives a location at the end of what is now Lawley Street, slightly NE of where Union Road meets Oldbury Road

[David Mack]

4 hours ago, David Mack said:

Doesn't post #12 answer this? The Dunkirk branch runs left to right just below the top of the photo.

 

3 hours ago, Flyboy said:

Not sure about that. The Dunkirk branch runs opposite to the Gower Jnct.  https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=52.51893&lon=-2.03081&layers=6&right=BingHyb

Indeed. And on the photo, at the left hand end of the Dunkirk Branch you can see the bridges carrying the branch under the railway and the New Main Line north towpath, and directly opposite is the bridge carrying the south towpath over the Gower Branch. 

[magpie patrick]

2 hours ago, Captain Pegg said:

Don’t tiptoe away. I’d sooner discuss the exact shade of grey of the water on each part of the BCN than have to look at threads moaning about how other people boat or are coughing within a quarter of a mile of a moored boat or God forbid Brexit (because unbelievably that’s still being debated on good old CWDF).

 

 

I quite agree - I need a distraction too!

 

2 hours ago, Andrew Denny said:

Thanks, JP.  Do you know, I have quite forgotten why I originally asked the question!

You have give Athy and I a chance to trade football trivia...

 

Neither of us has until now named Albion Rovers, which is possibly the most fitting of the clubs so named as they play in Scotland - or Alba, which is a derivative of Albion apparently, as is Albania

 

It can be difficult to pinpoint why places got their names, and it can just lead to another question 

 

So IF the junction were named after the works, why the works so named...? And why were West Bromwich Albion named thus when it appears they weren't the team of Albion works... 

[Captain Pegg]

47 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

I quite agree - I need a distraction too!

 

You have give Athy and I a chance to trade football trivia...

 

Neither of us has until now named Albion Rovers, which is possibly the most fitting of the clubs so named as they play in Scotland - or Alba, which is a derivative of Albion apparently, as is Albania

 

It can be difficult to pinpoint why places got their names, and it can just lead to another question 

 

So IF the junction were named after the works, why the works so named...? And why were West Bromwich Albion named thus when it appears they weren't the team of Albion works... 

Albion Rovers was the last club in Scotland that I found out where they played. Obviously this was in the pre-Google era. Anyway I had a colleague and friend - now retired - who was an Airdrieonian and he revealed they were from down the road in Coatbridge. Like me he loved a bit of trivia. He also had an uncle or some relative that moved down to work at the Stewart & Lloyd’s tubeworks at Coombeswood so whenever I am out that way he’s always grateful if I post a pic on social media and asks if I’ve spotted any S&L tugs on my travels.

 

Phew - brought it back to the BCN. Wouldn’t be like me to drift off topic...

 

JP

Edited April 16, 2020 by Captain Pegg

[TheBiscuits]

3 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

So IF the junction were named after the works, why the works so named...?

 

I was rather hoping that point would get glossed over! 

 

 

Complicated this history lark ...

[Chris Lowe]

The good old internet comes up with.

 

Albion, the earliest-known name for the island of Britain. It was used by ancient Greek geographers from the 4th century bc and even earlier, who distinguished “Albion” from Ierne (Ireland) and from smaller members of the British Isles. The Greeks and Romans probably received the name from the Gauls or the Celts.

 

Albion incorporated as a village in 1855 and as a city in 1885.

 

Albion is an alternative name for the island of Great Britain. It is sometimes used poetically to refer to the island, but has fallen out of common use in English. ... These names were later Latinised as Albania and Anglicised as Albany, which were once alternative names for Scotland.

 

Merlin. Albion is a landmass that constitutes the island currently known as Great Britain. Once, the land of Albion was united in an age of peace, during which all of its inhabitants followed the Old Religion. Now there are many kingdoms within Albion, between which peace is exceedingly rare.

 

And the football reference.

 

The word Albion was originally used to mean Britain, then only for parts of Britain with white cliffs. The name was first applied to a football team by Brighton and Hove as there are white cliffs in Dover. The name was later copied by other teams, eg. West Bromwich

[Captain Pegg]

1 hour ago, buccaneer66 said:

The word Albion was originally used to mean Britain, then only for parts of Britain with white cliffs. The name was first applied to a football team by Brighton and Hove as there are white cliffs in Dover. The name was later copied by other teams, eg. West Bromwich

A theory perhaps given credence by the similarity of the colours worn by WBA to those of BHA.

 

Albion Rovers though wear those great traditional Scottish colours - the gold and red of the Tunnock’s Caramel wafer wrapper.

 

JP

[RLWP]

On the 'Where are we on the BCN??', I wouldn't worry too much about it, it endlessly confuses everyone. The Gower branch starts at Albion Junction near Dunkirk stop and includes the Brades locks - that's a lot of names for not many places. The Atherstone flight is bloody miles long and is just the Atherstone flight

 

Try sorting out the 'Old Turn' 'Gas Street' 'Sandy Turn' conundrum! The first BCN Challenge we competed on had all of these junctions scored separately before Roy and John sensibly simplified things

 

Richard

[Flyboy]

Weren't Albion trucks built at West Bromwich ?

[MoominPapa]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

On the 'Where are we on the BCN??', I wouldn't worry too much about it, it endlessly confuses everyone. The Gower branch starts at Albion Junction near Dunkirk stop and includes the Brades locks - that's a lot of names for not many places. The Atherstone flight is bloody miles long and is just the Atherstone flight

 

Try the fens: can you tell your forty foot drain from your hundred foot and your twenty foot? Where does Whittlesey Dyke become King's Dyke, and why is the River Nene (old course) nowhere near the River Nene? Extra points for knowing the locations of the long-drained meres.

 

MP.

 

[Ex Brummie]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

On the 'Where are we on the BCN??', I wouldn't worry too much about it, it endlessly confuses everyone. The Gower branch starts at Albion Junction near Dunkirk stop and includes the Brades locks - that's a lot of names for not many places. The Atherstone flight is bloody miles long and is just the Atherstone flight

 

Try sorting out the 'Old Turn' 'Gas Street' 'Sandy Turn' conundrum! The first BCN Challenge we competed on had all of these junctions scored separately before Roy and John sensibly simplified things

 

Richard

 

21 minutes ago, MoominPapa said:

Try the fens: can you tell your forty foot drain from your hundred foot and your twenty foot? Where does Whittlesey Dyke become King's Dyke, and why is the River Nene (old course) nowhere near the River Nene? Extra points for knowing the locations of the long-drained meres.

 

MP.

 

Those of us who can still read maps will be the only ones with any idea of where we are. When the satellite falls (or is shot) out of space, 80% of the world population will be wandering aimlessly around. God forbid my having to take another driving test; I don't know how to programme a sat-nav.

[Andrew Denny]

3 hours ago, buccaneer66 said:

The good old internet comes up with.

 

Albion, the earliest-known name for the island of Britain. It was used by ancient Greek geographers from the 4th century bc and even earlier, who distinguished “Albion” from Ierne (Ireland) and from smaller members of the British Isles. The Greeks and Romans probably received the name from the Gauls or the Celts.

 

Albion incorporated as a village in 1855 and as a city in 1885.

 

Albion is an alternative name for the island of Great Britain. It is sometimes used poetically to refer to the island, but has fallen out of common use in English. ... These names were later Latinised as Albania and Anglicised as Albany, which were once alternative names for Scotland.

 

Merlin. Albion is a landmass that constitutes the island currently known as Great Britain. Once, the land of Albion was united in an age of peace, during which all of its inhabitants followed the Old Religion. Now there are many kingdoms within Albion, between which peace is exceedingly rare.

 

And the football reference.

 

The word Albion was originally used to mean Britain, then only for parts of Britain with white cliffs. The name was first applied to a football team by Brighton and Hove as there are white cliffs in Dover. The name was later copied by other teams, eg. West Bromwich

My alter ego, my aka, is Albion Dumsday (hence my twitter account @albiondumsday and my email of albion@dumsday.com), named after an ancestor born in 1797.  I like it for that very English ring -- it was a patriotic name for a very patriotic time.

 

But I created a rod for my own back, because when asked to spell out 'dumsday' over the phone it's pretty tricky without resorting to phonetics

D ... "t?"  No, d. u. m.  "n?"  No, m...  etc) 

 

 

 

[WotEver]

7 hours ago, Andrew Denny said:

But I created a rod for my own back, because when asked to spell out 'dumsday' over the phone it's pretty tricky without resorting to phonetics

D ... "t?"  No, d. u. m.  "n?"  No, m...  etc) 

Yup, Albion Delta Uniform Mike Sierra Delta Alpha Yankee is a pretty clumsy name...

[JamesWoolcock]

On 17/04/2020 at 09:53, Flyboy said:

Weren't Albion trucks built at West Bromwich ?

Albion Motors was a Scottish automobile and commercial vehicle manufacturer. Founded in 1899, Albion Motors was purchased by Leyland Motors in 1951.

 

Keep safe

James

[Iain_S]

"Alba" in the Gaelic means Scotland.