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A Thames Tributary Query

Heartland

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Tam & Di Influencer

Tam & Di

Posted
Posted

It doesn't sound quite right to me. Stop planks grooves made with cast concrete would not generally be separate self-supporting items - they'd be integral with the edges of the narrow section of canal where planks would be used. Nothing else comes immediately to my mind though.

 

Tam

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mark99 Veteran II

mark99

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Tam & Di said:

It doesn't sound quite right to me. Stop planks grooves made with cast concrete would not generally be separate self-supporting items - they'd be integral with the edges of the narrow section of canal where planks would be used. Nothing else comes immediately to my mind though.

 

Tam

Agree. The structure needs to be exposed properly via a controlled manner. 

 

Interesting stuff.

 

 

 

 

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Anna-Maria Gongoozler

Anna-Maria

Posted
Posted

Thanks Tam...this is a pic from the side. There’s a dip about 3/4 of the way down on both the arm bits. Sounds like it’s not anything to do with the canal...we will do more digging and see what else there is down there. 

8A5FD0B1-294B-4785-BCA5-D88CF3A4B21B.jpeg

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mark99 Veteran II

mark99

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Anna-Maria said:

Thanks Tam...this is a pic from the side. There’s a dip about 3/4 of the way down on both the arm bits. Sounds like it’s not anything to do with the canal...we will do more digging and see what else there is down there. 

Have you looked at the historical map overlay service available online free?

 

 

If you would pinpoint where this is I will overlay a hundred year old map to show what used to be there.

Edited by mark99
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Anna-Maria Gongoozler

Anna-Maria

Posted
Posted

Hi Mark99 - I don’t know of the map overlay service. If you can help with this that would be great. I know for sure that this is a section where the railway followed the canal course then veered away towards Forest Hill. What do you need? Co-ordinates or a screenshot?

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mark99 Veteran II

mark99

Posted
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Anna-Maria said:

Hi Mark99 - I don’t know of the map overlay service. If you can help with this that would be great. I know for sure that this is a section where the railway followed the canal course then veered away towards Forest Hill. What do you need? Co-ordinates or a screenshot?

Just a rough screen shot on a modern map Anna. I will overlay, post back here and put up the link so you can delve further as you choose.

Edited by mark99
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Ray T Veteran II

Ray TDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

@Anna-Maria

 

There is a song about the Croydon Canal:

 

http://waterwaysongs.info/all_hail.htm

 

All hail this grand day when with gay colours flying,
The barges are seen on the current to glide,
When with fond emulation all parties are vying,
To make our canal of Old England the pride.

Chorus :
Long down its fair stream may the rich vessel glide,
And the Croydon Canal be of England the pride.

And may it long flourish, while commerce caressing,
Adorns its gay banks with her wealth-bringing stores;
To Croydon, and all round the country a blessing,
May industry's sons ever thrive on its shore!

And now my good fellows sure nothing is wanting
To heighten our mirth and our blessings crown,
But with the gay belles on its banks to be flaunting
When spring smiles again on this high-favoured town.

Composed by a 'gentleman' to celebrate the Croydon Canal.
It was sung at the opening in October 1809 by Mr J Walsh, one of the proprietors.
Words to be found in ‘Canal Songs’ by Jon Raven.
Information about the short-lived Croydon Canal can be found on the Canal Museum website.

 

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Anna-Maria Gongoozler

Anna-Maria

Posted
Posted

Thanks Ray T - yes I have seen that poem before. I'm attaching a very lovely extract from a newspaper from 1891 in which someone remembers the beauty of the Croydon Canal - beautifully written and very sad. 

Extract - remebering the canal 1891.png

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oboat Community Regular

oboat

Posted
Posted

Not much to see, However just looking at the Concrete, it is poor quality (1930-50) and typical of that used for stop line defence elements.
 Its location by the side of a railway line, also gives this theory some credence.
It could have been part of a retainer for heavy chain. If so as it is very significant and will fill a knowledge gaps in a defence line!
That said it is not uncommon to find old water control structures put in, after a canal has been closed in an attempt to control remnant water flows.
It could also be just a lump of railway junk or fence post.

I would suggest you clear away a little more stuff, taking photos as you go. (you may find a big chain or ironwork related to water control).
Then invite the South London Branch of the IWA to have a look.
 They have a few anoraks who know the CC like the back of their hand.
If that fails you could contact the Pill Box Study Group who would be able to identify it as part of a STOP.  

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mark99 Veteran II

mark99

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hi Anna,

 

Here is the link. It enables you to choose an old map and overlay across another map of your choice using a "slider" to set opacity. Great tool for 100 year old etc exploring history.

 

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=51.45759&lon=-0.03891&layers=6&b=1

 

Your site  - the maps does not tell us a huge amount.

 

Same area, 100% opacity (use slider on link to set opacity)

 

Capture.JPG

 

 

Slider at 40% opacity.

 

 

Capture1.JPG

 

 

0% opacity

 

 

 

Capture2.JPG

 

 

Another map tried - there is a small notation "stone" on this map. Not sure if related to your structure.

 

 

 

Capture3.JPG

 

 

 

 

Capture4.JPG

Edited by mark99
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Anna-Maria Gongoozler

Anna-Maria

Posted
Posted

Thanks for going to all this trouble Mark99 - the 'stone' reference is at about the right place...interesting. It seems too small a structure to be noted on a map - perhaps we will find more as we continue to clear. The tool is a very useful one and I can see I'll be using a lot! Thank-you.

oboat - thanks for your advice. Very helpful.

We'll uncover more and then look at the other possibilities you suggest. I was so hoping it had something to do with the canal..oh well. 

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David Mack Veteran II

David MackDonate to Canal World

Posted
Posted

The Croydon Canal opened in 1809 and closed in 1836. So any remnants of the original canal infrastructure would be around 200 years old now. Much of it would have been destroyed when the railway was built (or may still remain buried beneath the railway). The sections of canal not used for the railway mostly disappeared when the surrounding areas got built up in the later 19th century and early 20th century. That lump of concrete doesn't look to me to be 200 years old. More likely to date from the 1930s or later I would have thought.

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Bee Veteran

Bee

Posted
Posted

Looks sort of railway ish or maybe a bit of pillbox, sort of cast concrete firing aperture thingy that enabled an arc of fire through a small inner hole. That was the extra one that was delivered and nobody felt like lifting it back on the lorry after the pillbox was built.

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Flyboy Experienced

Flyboy

Posted
Posted
On 05/05/2020 at 18:51, Anna-Maria said:

Hi Mark99 - I don’t know of the map overlay service. If you can help with this that would be great. I know for sure that this is a section where the railway followed the canal course then veered away towards Forest Hill. What do you need? Co-ordinates or a screenshot?

This site might help.  You can overlay or use side by side maps,   https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=51.50427&lon=-0.07471&layers=6&right=BingHyb

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Scholar Gypsy Veteran

Scholar Gypsy

Posted
Posted
Just now, Flyboy said:

This site might help.  You can overlay or use side by side maps,   https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=16&lat=51.50427&lon=-0.07471&layers=6&right=BingHyb

It's a great site, I have been using it all week for the Virtual BCN campaign cruise (each boat has a time machine on board). We are currently on the Oldbury Loop, about here.



 

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Flyboy Experienced

Flyboy

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Scholar Gypsy said:

It's a great site, I have been using it all week for the Virtual BCN campaign cruise (each boat has a time machine on board). We are currently on the Oldbury Loop, about here.



 

How many virtual plastic bags have you got on the prop so far ?   :giggles:

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