Kedian side hatches/doors 1 yr on (not impressed)

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, mrsmelly said:

There were many streets left bombed for many many years.

And, that's how NCP made their 'millions' (billions ?)

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

And, that's how NCP made their 'millions' (billions ?)

Yes it is, or partly. Cleared the land for nowt if they were allowed to keep it to turn into a car park I spose? Many streets where 30 years into the eighties sometimes before being sorted.

[blackrose]

On 12/04/2020 at 21:31, nicknorman said:

When we were contemplating our new boat, we wanted a side hatch. My mate who has had boats for about 45 years, said “oh you don’t want a side hatch, they always leak.” But we pressed ahead anyway. 9 years later, still no hint of a leak. So it can be done.

 

Likewise the side doors on my 15 year old Liverpool boat have never leaked, although I aIppreciate there may be a difference with retrofitted side doors.

 

They are side doors rather than hatches. I've never heard of retrofitted side hatches.

 

On 12/04/2020 at 21:31, nicknorman said:

 

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by blackrose

[cheshire~rose]

Can I make a suggestion please? 

 

A bit of off topic banter doesn't harm in my view but what concerns me is that the title of this thread suggests there is a problem with the work of a specific boat yard. Now, anyone reading through the thread will realise that the jury is still out on whether there really is a problem with the work or whether it is something unconnected that is causing the problem. 

 

The thing is that not every visitor the the forum will read the thread and keep an open mind on this matter. Each time I click "View New Content" This thread is up there with the words "Not Impressed" which is in itself a bit damning regardless of whether there is a case for the boatyard to answer on this or not. 

 

Small businesses at this time have enough worries on their minds about how they will keep going through lock down, get the parts and supplies they need to continue to work and whether they can keep their staff safe and well. Nobody needs a constant suggestion that the quality of their work may be at fault via a public forum like this to add to their worries, especially when the boatyard in question has previously had a good reputation. I don't know the boatyard and have no personal experience of their work but I do have personal experience of being in a business where word of mouth and good reputation was everything. I am going to ask a moderator to amend the title of this thread so people can read it before making up their minds whether they should also not be impressed or not. I hope I am not treading on anyones toes by doing so x 

[blackrose]

Presumably the title of the OP's previous thread was more positive and nobody asked for it it be amended. I see no real reason for censorship in this case.

[cheshire~rose]

1 minute ago, blackrose said:

Presumably the title of the OP's previous thread was more positive and nobody asked for it it be amended. I see no real reason for censorship in this case.

I don't know. I have not seen it and i is not "trending" at the moment 

[magictime]

On 16/04/2020 at 14:09, Mike the Boilerman said:

(can we see some pics from the outside, of the frame, with the hatches OPEN please?) 

 

Here you go.

[reg]

Personally I can't see anything that I wouldn't consider reasonable maintenance and which could easily be fixed with a simple frame sealant run around the edge of the wood trim. 

Wood shrinks, sealant is designed to handle that. 

The substantive part of the frame I. E the metalwork all appears to be well designed and not at fault. 

My Personal view is that this falls well within the bounds of the owners maintenance responsibilities. 

 

[NB Esk]

 

If I'd have made those, the ends of that rain deflector channel (the inverted angle iron) would have been closed.  What's to prevent water leeching under the highest end and running along the underside?

 

 

[Rickent]

Looks like a run of silicone would solve the  issue , or am I missing something .

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, mrsmelly said:

His shop was at the top end of two rows of bombed terraces still waiting to be cleared after the second world war lol. There were many streets left bombed for many many years.

Just around the corner from my grandparents' house in Kingston the row of pre-war houses suddenly stopped and had been replaced with half a dozen post-war houses...

[mark99]

Perhaps as said a run of sealant. If that does not fix it totally, add strip of thin neoprene around the doors.

 

The neoprene comes with one sticky side and you have to regard it as "sacrificial" ie you may be replacing it every few times you open the windows so keep a roll handy.

 

Come in various widths and thickness'. Don't buy too thick as you will difficulty shutting the window (but a great seal).

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=neoprene+strip&_sacat=0

 

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by mark99

[WotEver]

1 hour ago, reg said:

My Personal view is that this falls well within the bounds of the owners maintenance responsibilities. 

That's how it looks to me too.

[pearley]

1 hour ago, NB Esk said:

 

If I'd have made those, the ends of that rain deflector channel (the inverted angle iron) would have been closed.  What's to prevent water leeching under the highest end and running along the underside?

 

 

Ours Kedian one is closed.

[NB Esk]

9 minutes ago, pearley said:

Ours Kedian one is closed.

 

That's how I'd have done it.  Take it there are no issues with yours?

 

 

[pearley]

3 hours ago, NB Esk said:

 

That's how I'd have done it.  Take it there are no issues with yours?

 

 

Fitted 10 years and no problems. Steelwork and installation by Martin Kedian, painting and woodwork by Sabre Narrowboats who did the original fitout.

[magictime]

How odd that older rain deflectors were closed and newer ones are open. There must have been some logic behind the introduction of this 'flaw'!

 

Anyway, the consensus seems to be that the issue is most likely a poor seal between wood frame and steel, rather than between steel hatch and cabin, so that's a step forwards.

[Bee]

5 hours ago, NB Esk said:

 

If I'd have made those, the ends of that rain deflector channel (the inverted angle iron) would have been closed.  What's to prevent water leeching under the highest end and running along the underside?

 

 

That seems to be the only way that water could get in, running along the underneath, dropping down off a blob of weld or paint, creeping in through the top edge of the door and then finding its way down the inside surface of the door until it touches that discoloured wood trim and seeps through the gap. Funny stuff water, I've no idea how wooden boats with hundreds of feet of seams ever stayed afloat.

[nicknorman]

7 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

Can I make a suggestion please? 

 

A bit of off topic banter doesn't harm in my view but what concerns me is that the title of this thread suggests there is a problem with the work of a specific boat yard. Now, anyone reading through the thread will realise that the jury is still out on whether there really is a problem with the work or whether it is something unconnected that is causing the problem. 

 

The thing is that not every visitor the the forum will read the thread and keep an open mind on this matter. Each time I click "View New Content" This thread is up there with the words "Not Impressed" which is in itself a bit damning regardless of whether there is a case for the boatyard to answer on this or not. 

 

Small businesses at this time have enough worries on their minds about how they will keep going through lock down, get the parts and supplies they need to continue to work and whether they can keep their staff safe and well. Nobody needs a constant suggestion that the quality of their work may be at fault via a public forum like this to add to their worries, especially when the boatyard in question has previously had a good reputation. I don't know the boatyard and have no personal experience of their work but I do have personal experience of being in a business where word of mouth and good reputation was everything. I am going to ask a moderator to amend the title of this thread so people can read it before making up their minds whether they should also not be impressed or not. I hope I am not treading on anyones toes by doing so x 

There are always nutters who will find fault with anything and vociferously complain on the internet. However I don’t think this is the case here. Regardless of the quality of the work, a major job like that should come with some sort of after sales service / snag fixing. If, as reported, MK refuses to engage with the OP, as indeed he is declining to engage here to put his side of the story, that might suggest a certain arrogance. If it were me, whilst I wouldn’t want to get into a prolonged public argument, I would make a brief statement of my position, presuming my position was reasonable.

 

MK is aware of this thread and IMO is “condemned” by not feeling any obligation to defend his work and practices. He thus makes the bed in which he has to lie!

[magictime]

7 hours ago, cheshire~rose said:

Can I make a suggestion please? 

 

A bit of off topic banter doesn't harm in my view but what concerns me is that the title of this thread suggests there is a problem with the work of a specific boat yard. Now, anyone reading through the thread will realise that the jury is still out on whether there really is a problem with the work or whether it is something unconnected that is causing the problem. 

 

The thing is that not every visitor the the forum will read the thread and keep an open mind on this matter. Each time I click "View New Content" This thread is up there with the words "Not Impressed" which is in itself a bit damning regardless of whether there is a case for the boatyard to answer on this or not. 

 

Small businesses at this time have enough worries on their minds about how they will keep going through lock down, get the parts and supplies they need to continue to work and whether they can keep their staff safe and well. Nobody needs a constant suggestion that the quality of their work may be at fault via a public forum like this to add to their worries, especially when the boatyard in question has previously had a good reputation. I don't know the boatyard and have no personal experience of their work but I do have personal experience of being in a business where word of mouth and good reputation was everything. I am going to ask a moderator to amend the title of this thread so people can read it before making up their minds whether they should also not be impressed or not. I hope I am not treading on anyones toes by doing so x 

I understand the concern and I hope I've been quite careful not to go beyond the facts of the matter, and to be quite clear that this is only one person's experience. But at the end of the day, it's just a review, of the sort that any small business must surely nowadays expect to be out there on the internet somewhere (if not on their own Facebook page!) There's a consumer perspective here as well as a business perspective, and I've essentially posted the comment I wish I'd seen before spending £2000+ on these things, under a title that would have drawn my attention to it. 

[David Mack]

On 16/04/2020 at 14:00, magictime said:

 

 

8 hours ago, magictime said:

 

 

 

Comparing the two photos above we can see a distinct localised staining on the outside which corresponds to the worst of the leakage on the inside.

 

 

In this image I can see some staining below the bottom left hand corner of the glass, on the opening window. I am wondering if the problem is not leakage at all but condensation running down off the glass at the bottom left corner. This seeps down between the wood of the opening window and the wooden trim along the bottom of the opening, but is stopped by the lip of the steelwork below. It then flows inwards between the steelwork and the wooden lining, reappearing on the inside. The condensation running off the window is clean, so barely stains the wood, but the tannins in the oak lining react with the steel in the presence of water, meaning that when the water reappears it is stained black, hence the dark stains on the panel below the window..

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

 

Comparing the two photos above we can see a distinct localised staining on the outside which corresponds to the worst of the leakage on the inside.

 

 

In this image I can see some staining below the bottom left hand corner of the glass, on the opening window. I am wondering if the problem is not leakage at all but condensation running down off the glass at the bottom left corner. This seeps down between the wood of the opening window and the wooden trim along the bottom of the opening, but is stopped by the lip of the steelwork below. It then flows inwards between the steelwork and the wooden lining, reappearing on the inside. The condensation running off the window is clean, so barely stains the wood, but the tannins in the oak lining react with the steel in the presence of water, meaning that when the water reappears it is stained black, hence the dark stains on the panel below the window..

That explanation certainly fits the observable facts. 

[bizzard]

I reckon too that it's condensation, or that Dragonfly keeps having a wee.

[Jim Riley]

On 19/04/2020 at 11:23, magictime said:

Here you go.

Can't you get that pink changed under warranty? 

[magictime]

18 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

 

Comparing the two photos above we can see a distinct localised staining on the outside which corresponds to the worst of the leakage on the inside.

 

 

In this image I can see some staining below the bottom left hand corner of the glass, on the opening window. I am wondering if the problem is not leakage at all but condensation running down off the glass at the bottom left corner. This seeps down between the wood of the opening window and the wooden trim along the bottom of the opening, but is stopped by the lip of the steelwork below. It then flows inwards between the steelwork and the wooden lining, reappearing on the inside. The condensation running off the window is clean, so barely stains the wood, but the tannins in the oak lining react with the steel in the presence of water, meaning that when the water reappears it is stained black, hence the dark stains on the panel below the window..

Interesting, thank you. It might (might!) be that the staining there is a separate matter from the leakage, then. However, that staining is cosmetic and not my main concern. My main concern (to reiterate) is that water drips out below gunwale level on to the dinette cushions after heavy rain (mostly below the opposite corner of the window, the bottom right), which suggests to me that quite a bit of water is finding its way in from outside and staying mostly out of sight between the steel cabin and wood lining.  

 

21 minutes ago, Jim Riley said:

Can't you get that pink changed under warranty? 

How very dare you!