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Ammunition barge history ?


Jon and Lisa

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11 hours ago, Robert B. said:

Admiralty lighters were usually given a  harbour service 'Yard Craft' designation and number e.g. YC XX, where x is the vessels individual number. YC74 is currently up on the 'duck and is an interesting comparison, with exception of the  timber rubbing strakes the hull profile is very similar, although I expect these craft were turned out to standardized admiralty designs. YC74 is said to have been built in 1909, although I don't know how this has been determined.

 

I've had a look through (incomplete) listings of admiralty auxiliary craft of the first world war but a YC207 is not present. There are however other examples in the YC 2XX range - Lighter YC 296 for example is listed as a 'boom defence' vessel and probably supported anti submarine nets across a harbour entrance. Numbers were allocated seemingly at random.

Hi Robert

Under the welded on "207A" the steel is stamped with " NA207" the letters are 8" high . Where did you find the listing for the registered vessels?

 

Regards Jon 

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On 13/04/2020 at 08:51, Tam & Di said:

We used to run three small (300 and 400 dwt) coastal ships, and during the Gulf war the two smaller ones were chartered by the MoD to carry explosives. The holds had to be draped in material to minimise risk of sparks, and they then layed at anchor in the Chapmans Anchorage in the Thames estuary. The idea was that should anything go wrong it was preferable for it to be a 300 ton vessel rather than anything larger.     ??    We did get well paid.

 

Tam

Hi Tam

Do you have any pictures of the boats ? 

Would the MOD still be using 1930's boats for the Gulf War ? I know they used to keep the old goddess fire tenders and land rovers stored just in case .

Regards Jon 

 

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On 13/04/2020 at 08:51, Tam & Di said:

We used to run three small (300 and 400 dwt) coastal ships, and during the Gulf war the two smaller ones were chartered by the MoD to carry explosives. The holds had to be draped in material to minimise risk of sparks, and they then layed at anchor in the Chapmans Anchorage in the Thames estuary. The idea was that should anything go wrong it was preferable for it to be a 300 ton vessel rather than anything larger.     ??    We did get well paid.

 

Tam

Hi Tam

Do you have any pictures of the boats ? 

Would the MOD still be using 1930's boats for the Gulf War ? I know they used to keep the old goddess fire tenders and land rovers stored just in case .

Regards Jon 

 

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2 minutes ago, Bee said:

Its got rather a nicely shaped stern for a lighter, wonder if it was ever powered?

I thought that when we first saw her , I've been in below the floors at the stern and there's no sign of any kind of engine mounts or prop tube through the hull.  It has three mounts on the rear for a rudder .

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Hi Jon,

Lodella was a fairly prosaic workaday 30m coastal barge built 1971 at Hepworth's of Hull. We got her from Crescent Shipping (originally London & Rochester Shipping) and is here discharging sand on the Thames Jan 1984 before we repainted her in our own colours. Our other two were rather more ship-like in shape and came from Everards.

Good luck with your research.

Tam

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I believe the brass fitting is a bilge pump. The cylinder is the plunger and the rubber is the valve. There will be a square socket for the  stancheon and the pumping handle. A vertical rod would connect to the bridge on the plunger. Tug kennet has three pumps like this. The pump cylinder is around two feet long with another valve in the bottom.

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18 hours ago, Jon and Lisa said:

So whilst chipping away at the deck readying 207A for a well deserved coat of primer and top coat i have unearthed a brass hatch with a 18" deep tube below it and this brass plug ( with weighted rubber breather flap down it . It seems to head towards the bottom of the hull i believe there used to be openable doors on the bottom of the hull to sink her if captured could this be part of that mechanism? 

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Hi, is the "weighted rubber flap" hinged at the rear, so it can open and close?  If so, I also believe it to be part of a bilge pump system.  The rubber valve would normally be known as a "clack valve".

I own a vessel with similar hand operated bilge pumps, I'll try to take a pic later...

 

Lovely boat, got some really nice lines and it doesn't look to have had a hard life, those plates look really good.

 

 

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Hi 

Yes the rubber flap is hinged , so that would make sense as a bulge pump . We had her in dry dock 7 months ago had all doubling taken off and replaced with new single plate , then had the whole of the underside high pressure water blasted and then primed and two pack epoxy coated . Not cheap but it's our home . Would like to see the pump assembly if you could .

Regards Jon 

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10 hours ago, Jon and Lisa said:

Hi Robert

Under the welded on "207A" the steel is stamped with " NA207" the letters are 8" high . Where did you find the listing for the registered vessels?

 

Regards Jon 

I'm not entirely sure what the 'NA' in your designation refers to. Admiralty pennant designations begging with 'N' were reserved for minesweepers, whilst the suffix 'A' was awarded to coastal motor boats (small wooden gun/torpedo motor launches) so I suspect these probably don't refer to an admiralty designation. Maybe 207A is the original builders hull number?

 

There is a lighter X-207 (X= special craft) on the list, but this refers to a motorised vessel built to land troops and supplies on beaches in the Gallipoli campaign.

 

Admiralty supporting and harbour service vessels of the first world war can be found here, although this list is woefully incomplete for minor vessels like your barge. unfortunately the few YC service barges listed don't have any dimension particulars, making them difficult to compare.  Section 52 deals with lighters and barges, although the list is very short compared to the numbers that must have been in use.

 

There are some internal photgraphs of the hold in the listing for YC74. Do they compare well with your example?

 

Robert

Edited by Robert B.
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18 hours ago, Jon and Lisa said:

Hi 

Yes the rubber flap is hinged , so that would make sense as a bulge pump . We had her in dry dock 7 months ago had all doubling taken off and replaced with new single plate , then had the whole of the underside high pressure water blasted and then primed and two pack epoxy coated . Not cheap but it's our home . Would like to see the pump assembly if you could .

Regards Jon 

 

No problem, my setup is ancient, piston being wooden and leather but the general idea remains the same.  As mentioned by a post above, the pump framework fits into a square (in my case it's what the lid engages with)  Pics show pump at top and bottom of stroke, the entire framework and below decks, the cylinder.  Hope this helps.

 

 

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1 hour ago, David Mack said:

 

And in that tapered section is there a (wooden?) bung with a hole through it and another flap valve?

 

Don't believe there's anything down there but I will check to make sure.

 

 

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  • 1 year later...

Hi all, I have been interested to read your comments from last year. I also have a lighter/dumb barge. She was originally called 183A and is an ex MOD ammunition barge with flood gates to scuttle her if there ever was an explosion. She spent her working life moored in the River Tamar off of Devonport Dockyard. I have tried looking up all the vessels in The National Museum of Royal Navy naval-history.net on lighters and barges and was disappointed to only find one vessel listed in that category for Plymouth! Anyone else had any further luck since this thread started last year? I will be pleased to make contact with other barge owners, like myself.

Sally.

Edited by Sally Turner
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On 12/04/2020 at 07:58, Jon and Lisa said:

Hi 

We are new to boating life and recently purchased our ammunition barge 207A .

We are trying to find out more about her past , the beams inside her were made by Appleby-Frodingham so we assume she was made in Hull but not sure when , any help would be great thank you .

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Hi, it's good to see a photo of your barge and I am interested to find out about it too. Mine is an ex MOD ammunition barge, was built by Yarwoods and 93' x 23' . Her name was 183A.  I can't find any info on her either.

Sally.

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In the early 1970's I aquired two ex naval lighters that had been used previously as maintenance boats by BWB.    They were (apparently) former ammunition lighters used on the Clyde - some said that they were for transporting torpedoes, but i never hnew the true story.  On the left in this picture you can see what was left of the original configuration with a coaming around the hold and a separate coaming around the cockpit.  The barge on the right has had a rough steel cabin fitted.  They were both about 35ft long and 7'6" wide and swim ended with a large tiller steered rudder.   They were widely used in the early campaigns on the Forth & Clyde Canal, often horse-drawn as seen here at the opening of a canalside pub.     The Whisky barrels were, unfortunately, empty.

 

One of these barges was sold, sent south  and became a house on the River Ely

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  • 10 months later...

Hello 

 

I have just seen this site/ topic. I do naval research so can help.

 

NA 207 was a a Naval Ammunition Lighter built in 1943 by the MOWT. Transferred to the Admiralty post war she served at Chatham Dockyard as a Yard Craft under the Director of Armament Supply ( locally NASO)  based on Upnor/ Lodge Hill armament depots. Not sure what use she had after 1984 when the dockyard closed but  in 1990 when she was sold by by the MOD to  DC Marine Gillingham,

 

in 1958 she  became was part of the Port Auxiliary Service ( PAS).  Ownership  transferred  from the Admiralty to the Ministry of Defence in 1964. In 1976 the PAS merged with the  Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service (RMAS) under the latter name and as such would be renamed RMAS 207 (A)

 

Hope this helps 

Regards
Michael

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