Ammunition barge history ?

[Jon and Lisa]

Hi 

We are new to boating life and recently purchased our ammunition barge 207A .

We are trying to find out more about her past , the beams inside her were made by Appleby-Frodingham so we assume she was made in Hull but not sure when , any help would be great thank you .

[David Mack]

The beams would have been rolled by the Appleby-Frodingham Steel Company in Scunthorpe, which later became British Steel's Scunthorpe works. 

But that doesn't help with where the boat was built.

 

 https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Appleby-Frodingham_Steel_Co

[Jon and Lisa]

Thanks David , while renovation her there's a number stamped into the front NA207 then the individual numbers 207A have been welded over the top 

 

[Tam & Di]

Harkers of Knottingley built several keels - I don't know if they built MoD craft, but is it worth looking into their records. Presumably the seller had no further information?

[BEngo]

Dunstans of Thorne built a lot of MoD stuff.  Do you have any clues to the age of your boat?

Always worth an inquiry to the historical folks at MoD. 

N

[Sir Nibble]

Is this a harbour vessel for "bombing up" warships?

[Jon and Lisa]

5 hours ago, BEngo said:

Dunstans of Thorne built a lot of MoD stuff.  Do you have any clues to the age of your boat?

Always worth an inquiry to the historical folks at MoD. 

N

Thanks I'll have a look he previous owner and surveyor said 1930/35.  Would the national records office at kew be the place ? 

5 hours ago, Sir Nibble said:

Is this a harbour vessel for "bombing up" warships?

Yes I believe so it still has the timber boards on the inside of the hull to tie off loads 

[Sir Nibble]

46 minutes ago, Jon and Lisa said:

Thanks I'll have a look he previous owner and surveyor said 1930/35.  Would the national records office at kew be the place ? 

Yes I believe so it still has the timber boards on the inside of the hull to tie off loads 

Try the "explosion" museum of naval firepower in the old naval arms depot in Gosport. Worth a look on Google maps to see the loading dock still there.

[Jon and Lisa]

Thank you will do

[Bee]

I suppose it could have been built almost anywhere, Plymouth or Portsmouth perhaps. There used to be barges that looked a bit like that visible from the Tamar bridge but I guess there will be a Navy expert somewhere who will know the history of these boats.

[Jon and Lisa]

True , I thought ( maybe wrongly) that it would be one of the northern yards as they used Appleby Frodingham steel beams inside them .

[Bee]

Hard to tell by looking at the boat, I guess the navy drew up the plans and they were built to that design, it doesn't look like a typical Northern boat but it might have been designed by a young lad who went on to design the Ark Royal, It'll make a good story even if there is not a jot of truth in it.

[Jon and Lisa]

? true 

[Sir Nibble]

Not going to check but I seem to remember there still being an ammunition boat at the explosion museum. It's in a place called priddy's hard where they've been ammunitioning the navy since the ships were wooden. If anyone has records I think these are the people who will know. Last time I walked past there was a panzer IV outside the workshop! Looked quite incongruous among the naval guns and missile launchers.

[Tam & Di]

We used to run three small (300 and 400 dwt) coastal ships, and during the Gulf war the two smaller ones were chartered by the MoD to carry explosives. The holds had to be draped in material to minimise risk of sparks, and they then layed at anchor in the Chapmans Anchorage in the Thames estuary. The idea was that should anything go wrong it was preferable for it to be a 300 ton vessel rather than anything larger.     ??    We did get well paid.

 

Tam

[Pluto]

The records for Dunstons are held by Doncaster Archives. Another possible builder would be Watsons, near Newark.

[Jon and Lisa]

Thank you for all the potential leads . 

[Jon and Lisa]

So whilst chipping away at the deck readying 207A for a well deserved coat of primer and top coat i have unearthed a brass hatch with a 18" deep tube below it and this brass plug ( with weighted rubber breather flap down it . It seems to head towards the bottom of the hull i believe there used to be openable doors on the bottom of the hull to sink her if captured could this be part of that mechanism? 

[magnetman]

I'd be inclined to lift and clean under that if possible. It looks like a nasty rust trap almost as it the bolt heads have been sheared off by expanding rust. 

 

I wonder if it is a deck drain rather than a scuttling port but it could be either. Would need to see the waterline. 

 

ETA or is it the base for an outdoor toilet

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by magnetman
Typo edit

[Sir Nibble]

9 minutes ago, Jon and Lisa said:

So whilst chipping away at the deck readying 207A for a well deserved coat of primer and top coat i have unearthed a brass hatch with a 18" deep tube below it and this brass plug ( with weighted rubber breather flap down it . It seems to head towards the bottom of the hull i believe there used to be openable doors on the bottom of the hull to sink her if captured could this be part of that mechanism? 

Since these boats worked in the harbours where RN ships were based I doubt possible capture was an issue. Scuttling as quickly as possible in the event of mishap such as fire seems a likely precaution especially as it could happen right alongside a major warship. I would be interested to know if there are fixings for various load carrying cradles since the ships may need shells from boxed 20mm to 16 inch, torpedoes, depth charges, aircraft bombs etc etc all of which would require different stowage arrangements. An intriguing piece of history.

[magnetman]

Maybe a fire pump suction inlet ? 

[Tam & Di]

Either of those sound more plausible to me

 

Tam

Edited April 13, 2020 by Tam & Di
clarity

[Sir Nibble]

Dock at Priddys hard Gosport. Low tide self evidently.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Sir Nibble

[Robert B.]

Admiralty lighters were usually given a  harbour service 'Yard Craft' designation and number e.g. YC XX, where x is the vessels individual number. YC74 is currently up on the 'duck and is an interesting comparison, with exception of the  timber rubbing strakes the hull profile is very similar, although I expect these craft were turned out to standardized admiralty designs. YC74 is said to have been built in 1909, although I don't know how this has been determined.

 

I've had a look through (incomplete) listings of admiralty auxiliary craft of the first world war but a YC207 is not present. There are however other examples in the YC 2XX range - Lighter YC 296 for example is listed as a 'boom defence' vessel and probably supported anti submarine nets across a harbour entrance. Numbers were allocated seemingly at random.

[Jon and Lisa]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

I'd be inclined to lift and clean under that if possible. It looks like a nasty rust trap almost as it the bolt heads have been sheared off by expanding rust. 

 

I wonder if it is a deck drain rather than a scuttling port but it could be either. Would need to see the waterline. 

 

ETA or is it the base for an outdoor toilet

 

 

The deck drains off to the side / middle? it is above two steel compartments that had external underwater doors on ( i had to have them welded shut when having the boat survey done )