Midland Railway Co narrowboats

[Fmc_rob]

Morning all,

 

This fantastic image of a Midland Railway narrowboat is on display at the Dudley Canal Trust. Does anyone know what the colour scheme of Midland Railway narrowboats would be, and also what it should say on the side? Clearly M.R. But there appears to be at least one other letter of the same size hidden by the man sat on the cabin

 

Thanks 

Rob

[BEngo]

There is one of a horseboat  in Colours of the Cut p87.  It is of a K&A based boat.  EP-T said knowledge of the colours ws slight, but the  maroon of the Midland Railway is a sensible guess.

 

The Dudley picture appears to be of a more utilitarian livery than the CotC version.

N

 

[Athy]

16 minutes ago, Fmc_rob said:

Morning all,

 

This fantastic image of a Midland Railway narrowboat is on display at the Dudley Canal Trust. Does anyone know what the colour scheme of Midland Railway narrowboats would be, and also what it should say on the side? Clearly M.R. But there appears to be at least one other letter of the same size hidden by the man sat on the cabin

 

Thanks 

Rob

Co.?

[Captain Pegg]

26 minutes ago, BEngo said:

There is one of a horseboat  in Colours of the Cut p87.  It is of a K&A based boat.  EP-T said knowledge of the colours ws slight, but the  maroon of the Midland Railway is a sensible guess.

 

The Dudley picture appears to be of a more utilitarian livery than the CotC version.

N

 

I’m always a little sceptical that railway companies would have used their passenger locomotive liveries on canal boats. Particularly so the LMS who painted the vast majority of their locomotives black.

 

The crimson lake livery of the MR from which LMS livery derives wasn’t applied to locomotives until 1894 and I believe coaching stock livery evolved from a more basic red and white scheme. It may therefore post-date the first MR canal boats.

 

Goods wagons were painted grey by both companies. Might be a clue there. Particularly for day boats.

 

JP

 

[Chris M Jones]

Can anyone make out the names of the boats?

[Captain Pegg]

3 hours ago, Chris M Jones said:

Can anyone make out the names of the boats?

The nearer boat appears to be Victoria, and the second boat ends in -sley.

 

 

[MtB]

I always think that photos in those days were a big deal, not the trivial point-and-click of the last fifty years since Kodak came along. 

 

This photo is clearly planned an staged, everyone prepared at length for it, the bod on the cabin roof having put on his Sunday best three piece suit and tie, prolly top dog in the photo, a manager or something perhaps. Can't imagine he would wear those clothes to go boating. 

 

 

 

[Paddle]

Fifty years, Mike? Sixty or seventy more like!

[Derek R.]

Gaffers wore round hats, workmen flat caps. Hand on the tiller, and hand on the horse - gaffers.

Chap with the tie may well have been a photographers assistant.

[David Mack]

Why would the photographer's assistant be centre shot?

[Chris M Jones]

Midland Railway at Great Bridge had a boat called VICTORIA DOCK registered with the BCN number 8409. Its hard to make out the words after VICTORIA though - very confusing!

[Derek R.]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

Why would the photographer's assistant be centre shot?

Would a boatman be wearing a tie? And what's that in his button hole? Then, if you look at the composition of the people spread around the shot, he is filling a hole in the centre balancing out the image more. No other reason than that, and I could be wrong.

 

 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Derek R.
added text

[Ray T]

Just now, Derek R. said:

Would a boatman be wearing a tie? And what's that in his button hole? Then, if you look at the composition of the people spread around the shot, he is filling a hole in the centre balancing out the image more. No other reason than that, and I could be wrong.

 

 

Tom Sibley did. 

 

[cuthound]

19 hours ago, David Mack said:

Why would the photographer's assistant be centre shot?

 

Shutter delay? ?

[zenataomm]

20 hours ago, Ray T said:

Tom Sibley did. 

 

As superb a photo as this is, I am puzzled (nothing new there)

As the next lock is in view, why is he singling out?

 

[archie57]

20 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

As superb a photo as this is, I am puzzled (nothing new there)

As the next lock is in view, why is he singling out?

 

Quicker!

[ditchcrawler]

12 minutes ago, archie57 said:

Quicker!

Maybe to get round the bows of the two drifting out towards him?

[David Mack]

 

Marsworth 37 & 38?

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, archie57 said:

Quicker!

How? If he was breasted in the lock he's just ascended, he'll have had to undo the ropes first.  Then after he's exited, slow down to pick up a cross strap (there's no one to steer the butty, so a line would be useless). Then detach the butty again to prepare to enter the next one.  So, how's that quicker?

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

Maybe to get round the bows of the two drifting out towards him?

The two outside the lock waiting to enter, are using the sensible approach.  Where ever they end up is their problem not his. Being breasted up needs only a touch of reverse to straighten them up as he exits.   Actually his faffing with two separate boats is causing a nuisance to them not the other way round.

 

In fact the only sensible reason I can surmise is that the butty isn't going any further than the pound it's entering, and the guy leaning on the gate is going to bow haul it out while the motor continues on up solo.  

[Richard Carter]

58 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

How? If he was breasted in the lock he's just ascended, he'll have had to undo the ropes first.  Then after he's exited, slow down to pick up a cross strap (there's no one to steer the butty, so a line would be useless). Then detach the butty again to prepare to enter the next one.  So, how's that quicker?

The two outside the lock waiting to enter, are using the sensible approach.  Where ever they end up is their problem not his. Being breasted up needs only a touch of reverse to straighten them up as he exits.   Actually his faffing with two separate boats is causing a nuisance to them not the other way round.

 

In fact the only sensible reason I can surmise is that the butty isn't going any further than the pound it's entering, and the guy leaning on the gate is going to bow haul it out while the motor continues on up solo.  

When I was steering campers from Foxton and going north towards Leicester I gave up running breasted up between locks - even at Kibworth - because there was almost always something fouling a gate so a breasted pair got stuck. Singling out really doesn't take much longer than going abreast as it's less critical to line up entering the lock, you only need one cross strap and to quickly hitch the boats together at the stern once in the lock. Not necessarily saying that's the case here, as the GU main line locks are a lot wider, but singling out like this is a thing, and maybe the steerer knew something we don't ...

Edited April 13, 2020 by Richard Carter

[Hyperion 53]

2 hours ago, David Mack said:

 

Marsworth 37 & 38?

Coming up Stoke (Bruerne). The next lock is the top of the thick before the long pound to the top two.

[archie57]

3 hours ago, zenataomm said:

How? If he was breasted in the lock he's just ascended, he'll have had to undo the ropes first.  Then after he's exited, slow down to pick up a cross strap (there's no one to steer the butty, so a line would be useless). Then detach the butty again to prepare to enter the next one.  So, how's that quicker?

The two outside the lock waiting to enter, are using the sensible approach.  Where ever they end up is their problem not his. Being breasted up needs only a touch of reverse to straighten them up as he exits.   Actually his faffing with two separate boats is causing a nuisance to them not the other way round.

 

In fact the only sensible reason I can surmise is that the butty isn't going any further than the pound it's entering, and the guy leaning on the gate is going to bow haul it out while the motor continues on up solo.  

The pair going uphill wouldn't have needed to breast up, the butty steerer would have stopped it with an uphill strap (seen on the anser pin) before looping the strap round the next stump forward to stop the boat running back into the bottom gates when the paddles were drawn. The butty steerer is no doubt in the cabin attending to something!

Working the boats abreast loaded would be a lot slower, especially going into the locks going uphill when the water has got to get out  past the boats.

[Ray T]

1 minute ago, archie57 said:

The pair going uphill wouldn't have needed to breast up, the butty steerer would have stopped it with an uphill strap (seen on the anser pin) before looping the strap round the next stump forward to stop the boat running back into the bottom gates when the paddles were drawn. The butty steerer is no doubt in the cabin attending to something!

Working the boats abreast loaded would be a lot slower, especially going into the locks going uphill when the water has got to get out  past the boats.

Back outside. 

 

Photo from here: http://blisworth.org.uk/images/TH-Coll/JP Group/album/index.html

Edited April 13, 2020 by Ray T

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, Richard Carter said:

When I was steering campers from Foxton and going north towards Leicester I gave up running breasted up between locks - even at Kibworth - because there was almost always something fouling a gate so a breasted pair got stuck. Singling out really doesn't take much longer than going abreast as it's less critical to line up entering the lock, you only need one cross strap and to quickly hitch the boats together at the stern once in the lock. Not necessarily saying that's the case here, as the GU main line locks are a lot wider, but singling out like this is a thing, and maybe the steerer knew something we don't ...

While I had my pair the only time I ever had to single out to extract myself was Common Moor near Watford.  Plus I rarely had more than few ton on, drawing nothing like they are. Fair enough, I think the answer is in the draught, as the two waiting to come down have stayed abreast but are empty.

2 minutes ago, Ray T said:

Back outside. 

Look, there she is! 

Her was just putting kettle on.

[archie57]

AFAIK Mr Sibley was 3-handed at this time, but there many two-handed boaters who would have no choice but to work the boats abreast if the locks were against them.