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Marple lock ground paddles


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On my (temporary) regular walk to the shops up Marple locks the pounds had emptied, so I had a look over the side at the former bottom ground paddles. This lock 12, which has not recently been rebuilt. 

 

At least one ground paddle at most of the locks, and certainly at this one, survived until after restoration, so their removal is relatively recent as the canal reopened in 1974 and the ground paddles at lock 12 (or at least one of them) were still in use, Bro and I used to walk to and from scouts this way and I remember boaters struggling with them. 

 

Yet the pictures clearly show the lock end of the culvert for them, bricked up, but not the other end. given the water level in the lock tale is the same if not lower, and there was at most 18 inches of water over the invert, they're not there. Two reasons I conclude this

 

1 - you don't need to brick up BOTH ends of the culvert and 

 

2 - even if you did block both ends, that stonework has not been altered for many a long year, it's far, far older than the brickwork over the paddles in the lock. 

 

So where was the other end of the lower paddle culverts? 

 

 

P1000958 (2).JPG

P1000959 (2).JPG

P1000960 (2).JPG

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Is it definitely an outlet for a lower ground paddle and not an inlet for an upper ground paddle?

 

I’ll admit it looks like there is provision for a paddle but it’s not totally clear from the limited view.

 

Failing that could the culvert go under the invert and exit on the opposite side?

 

JP

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12 minutes ago, Captain Pegg said:

Is it definitely an outlet for a lower ground paddle and not an inlet for an upper ground paddle?

 

I’ll admit it looks like there is provision for a paddle but it’s not totally clear from the limited view.

 

Failing that could the culvert go under the invert and exit on the opposite side?

 

JP

I could provide a total photo mosaic (although I'd have to wait for the canal to empty again!) but yes, those are lower ground paddle holes, in the lower gate recess, the slits in the stonework above were for paddle rods - I recall for a while the paddle rods and the paddle shutter were still there, but the mechanism had been removed

 

It doesn't come out on the opposite side - I looked (one can see the opposite side from the towpath, as the paddles were on the towpath side). 

 

Logically they may come out through the invert I suppose, but one wonders why...? 

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I don't think so. The ground paddles are on the towpath side and the other side of the towpath there is a 50 ft drop. 

 

Something else I have noticed on that flight is that the keystones on the archwork are carved. Some appear to have faces on them. Does anyone know the history behind these?

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They are ground paddles - unusually for historic items I remember them being is use - the ones at lock 7 survived into my cross country running days so I'd be 14/15? (about 1980). No doubt, you opened one of these and the lock emptied, you might need to straighten your windlass afterwards as they were swines to operate. 

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From the maps I have access to, a stream appears to enter the canal above the lock, with some form of underground channel under the towpath feeding a pond by Lock 11. There could be an interconnection between the paddle exit and the culvert, with water entering the lower pound just above Lock 11.

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Taken at the tail of lock 2 (from inside the chamber) when it was drained in 2014. Seems to show some sort of opening outside the lock; whether twas a ground paddle I know not...Lock_Tail.jpg.b0e8805ddd2318f813fe09d8c8a0af1c.jpg

Edited by 1st ade
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17 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Looks like that was bricked up in two stages. Was the left hand paddle taken out of use first, with the right hand one following later?

Could well have been - this is lock 12, and I certainly don't recall the exact sequence but I think most locks retained one ground paddle at restoration, the odd one retained two, and some none (I think all the top four were fitted with hydraulic gate paddle gear on restoration). When originally built (or not long after, I think there were early modifications) there was a small highly geared paddle and a larger less geared paddle. The small one was easier to raise and start the lock emptying - the right hand brickwork looks smaller

 

I didn't spot the change in the brickwork when taking the photo, but it's quite apparent

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1 hour ago, 1st ade said:

Taken at the tail of lock 2 (from inside the chamber) when it was drained in 2014. Seems to show some sort of opening outside the lock; whether twas a ground paddle I know not...Lock_Tail.jpg.b0e8805ddd2318f813fe09d8c8a0af1c.jpg

Interesting, but probably not - tis on the wrong side! 

 

the offside gate recesses have a lock overflow in, so I guess it's the outlet to that

 

Same we can't see behind the fella on the right...  

 

Edited to add - give the canal is empty it's a bit concerning how high that boat is above the photographer! 

Edited by magpie patrick
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7 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Interesting, but probably not - tis on the wrong side! 

 

the offside gate recesses have a lock overflow in, so I guess it's the outlet to that

 

Shame we can't see behind the fella on the right... 

So - can't promise the location but: -

  • Chronologically it was while down in the lock chamber
  • It's not the previous 'ole as it's much too near the invert
  • It appears to curve to the right which is consistent with being the towpath side
  • From memory you couldn't get near the top ground paddles as the access staircase was nearly seven feet wide

So this might be it - which doesn't mean lock twelve has it!

820612352_Paddle-ole(1of1).jpg.c6d01c859780e4ae7511242a59753291.jpg

12 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

Edited to add - give the canal is empty it's a bit concerning how high that boat is above the photographer!

I think the amount of "silt" worried CRT at the time as well!

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1 minute ago, 1st ade said:

So - can't promise the location but: -

  • Chronologically it was while down in the lock chamber
  • It's not the previous 'ole as it's much too near the invert
  • It appears to curve to the right which is consistent with being the towpath side
  • From memory you couldn't get near the top ground paddles as the access staircase was nearly seven feet wide

So this might be it - which doesn't mean lock twelve has it!

820612352_Paddle-ole(1of1).jpg.c6d01c859780e4ae7511242a59753291.jpg

I think the amount of "silt" worried CRT at the time as well!

That makes sense - the top paddle culvert exits are in the cill in the middle of the lock. That is also small enough to hide under 18 inches of water

 

Thank you - another mystery solved! (The alloy bridge question was answered earlier too) 

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13 minutes ago, magpie patrick said:

 

the offside gate recesses have a lock overflow in, so I guess it's the outlet to that

Do you mean an overflow from inside the chamber, rather than a bywash round the whole lock?

I don't know about Marple, but elsewhere I'm pretty sure that these empty into a vertical shaft behind the lock wall that drains into the paddle culvert (just behind the paddle itself). So there is no separate outlet.

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6 minutes ago, David Mack said:

Do you mean an overflow from inside the chamber, rather than a bywash round the whole lock?

I don't know about Marple, but elsewhere I'm pretty sure that these empty into a vertical shaft behind the lock wall that drains into the paddle culvert (just behind the paddle itself). So there is no separate outlet.

Yes I do and elsewhere that is exactly what they do - but at marple locks there is an overflow on both sides (top and bottom) but only a ground paddle on one side

 

I can see I'm going to have to loiter around one of the locks and photograph all the bits... (but at the moment that isn't an essential journey and unless I run round the lock whilst doing it it isn't exercise either...) 

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4 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

They are ground paddles - unusually for historic items I remember them being is use - the ones at lock 7 survived into my cross country running days so I'd be 14/15? (about 1980). No doubt, you opened one of these and the lock emptied, you might need to straighten your windlass afterwards as they were swines to operate. 

funnily enough, my cross country running days took me past there - always at the rear of the pack needless to say  - from Marple Hall?

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I am quite sure that the late Dr C.T.G. Boucher, an acknowledged expert on the design  and history of canal lock structures will have written

chapter & verse on the features of Marple Locks. ?

Cross country running at Marple Hall? Bin there done that,about 1963. Part of the course involved  jumping into a freezing babbling brook in February IIRC.

There was a reward at the end of the race: The young ladies from the Domestic Science class had made cakes for us runners. I was not an inmate at MH.

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On 08/04/2020 at 15:35, David Mack said:

Do you mean an overflow from inside the chamber, rather than a bywash round the whole lock?

I don't know about Marple, but elsewhere I'm pretty sure that these empty into a vertical shaft behind the lock wall that drains into the paddle culvert (just behind the paddle

itself). So there is no separate outlet.

 

On 08/04/2020 at 15:43, magpie patrick said:

Yes I do and elsewhere that is exactly what they do - but at marple locks there is an overflow on both sides (top and bottom) but only a ground paddle on one side

 

I can see I'm going to have to loiter around one of the locks and photograph all the bits... (but at the moment that isn't an essential journey and unless I run round the lock whilst doing it it isn't exercise either...) 

 Just been back for daily exercise and I was wrong...

 

These are the lower gates and paddles of lock 7

 

Marple locks only have the overflow on the non-towpath side, and the paddles are on the towpath side! Thus each lock has four culverts, two at each end, one for the paddles and one for the overflow

 

 

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P1000964.JPG

And these at the top end of lock 7 (Lock 7 is one of a few that has public access up both sides, lock 9 is another)

 

It's not easy to see the slot for the overflow at the top as it's under an overhanging coping stone, but you can see the blowhole above the culvert.

P1000963.JPG

P1000967.JPG

Edited by magpie patrick
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  • 1 month later...

Just a thought.

As I understand that Historic England were insisting that, at enormous expense and a long time delay, the recent repairs had to replicate the original design were they unaware of the alterations that had been carried out?

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Listing is an interesting problem!
The one example I am aware of is lock 15 on the Ashton Canal which is listed, unfortunately this is as restored in 1974, and not as original, 1956 would have been great! So the silly hydraulic paddle gear and the metal balance beam without a strapping post had to be restored. I meet the guy enforcing this, from the council, and played hell with him, and said it was a total mockery of history, his reply was that all he has to go on is the listing statement, and pictures which accompany it. If we want to challenge this we have to go though a very long formal process. This is basically to stop developers taking the piss from the system.

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