A Thames Lock

[Heartland]

Charles James Lewis produced this painting of a Lock on the River Thames. The lock gates are open as a barge under sail approaches the lock. The other gates are just visible in the foreground, but the lock sides appear to be made of stone and timber.

 

Where could this lock be? Or is there artistic licence at work in this painting.  

Edited April 7, 2020 by Heartland

[MtB]

Its a lovely painting, are those fishing nets the girls are working on? 

 

Was there net fishing in the Thames?

 

 

[Paddle]

23 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Its a lovely painting, are those fishing nets the girls are working on? 

 

Was there net fishing in the Thames?

 

 

I don't know the answer, but would there not have been? There's still net fishing for salmon in certain Scottish rivers (or if there isn't, then it's been bought out in the last five years or so).

[GUMPY]

There were on the Thames and still are on the K&A turf sided locks, could it be this  one?

Bray was turf sided

https://www.visitthames.co.uk/about-the-river/river-thames-locks/bray-lock

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bray_Lock#/media/File:Bray_Lock,_Buckinghamshire.jpg

Edited April 7, 2020 by Loddon

[Tam & Di]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

Where could this lock be? Or is there artistic licence at work in this painting.  

 

Either artistic licence or poor observation skills unless the guy leading the horse is really trying to open a gate by leaning on the centre of the balance beam rather than on the end.  ?

[max's son]

May be the end is rotten and he did want to snap it off  

 

you can buy copy here https://paperhearts.gr/product/thames-lock-summertime-charles-james-lewis/

all greek to me

[TheBiscuits]

He did a lot of painting in the Hurley / Temple / Marlow area.

 

[magnetman]

Definitely some artistic license as the person on the left is leaning on a balance beam which has been prevented from opening fully by a bollard. 

 

Why would a bollard be there

 

I suppose it would be possible to work out the lock from the thread of water which is the River leading into the distance. 

 

That could be an accurate bit whereas the lock detail is inaccurate. 

 

Another slightly odd detail is that there is the horse but there is also a towing line which goes to the other side. 

 

Maybe it was going to be a changeover of horses which asks the question where were the stables? 

 

I don't know the answer to that but it's definitely interesting to think about how things were done. 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by magnetman

[magpie patrick]

5 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Its a lovely painting, are those fishing nets the girls are working on? 

 

Was there net fishing in the Thames?

 

 

I can't help feeling that, even if they are nets, they wouldn't be thanked for draping them over the lockside like that, the lock-keeper is clearly going to trip over them!

[Paddle]

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=J7FkAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=thames+net+fishing&source=bl&ots=Jz39f9B68j&sig=ACfU3U12YfKs8aabtXpQI-_Ow9oewSO90A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCzfusv9joAhXZMMAKHf1cDvUQ6AEwEXoECA0QKQ#v=onepage&q=thames net fishing&f=false

 

Net fishing was certainly permitted in the Thames in 1670 - provided it did not obstruct the common passage of vessels or the 'destruction of the frie of fish'. Not sure what that means - fry?

[Tam & Di]

14 hours ago, magnetman said:

Another slightly odd detail is that there is the horse but there is also a towing line which goes to the other side.

 

I don't know the answer to that but it's definitely interesting to think about how things were done. 

 

I wondered about the line and decided it might just be a long shaft, with the guy on the fore end gently easing the bows into line for the lock. My card is at Sonning dated 1902 with a similar rig. You'd have to raise the mast out of the way for loading and unloading - it could even be used as some form of jib, but it would have to be lowered for bridges. My best guess about the freight is either timber or hay.

 

Tam

 

[GUMPY]

15 hours ago, magnetman said:

Definitely some artistic license as the person on the left is leaning on a balance beam which has been prevented from opening fully by a bollard. 

 

Why would a bollard be there

Could be a post for holding the gate open in times of flood (as on the Nene) it says in the visitthames link that Bray lock was left open during high levels and only used when river was low.

[magnetman]

Nice picture.

Yes the line could be a shaft - could easily be a setting pole. They were used to guide vessels into locks or even around bends on the Thames. I've had quite a few setting pole shoes out with the magnet when I used to chuck it in the River. No longer do that due to the current problems with idiots leaving piles of scrap around. Don't want to be associated with those people. 

2 minutes ago, Loddon said:

Could be a post for holding the gate open in times of flood (as on the Nene) it says in the visitthames link that Bray lock was left open during high levels and only used when river was low.

That's a good point. 

 

It sort of does look deliberate but if it results in the gate not opening then surely it will get hit by boats coming into the lock. 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2020 by magnetman

[magnetman]

Referring to Tam's image, they look like setting poles on the front of that boat I think I can make out the swallowtail shoe on the end of one. 

Edited April 8, 2020 by magnetman

[mark99]

On 08/04/2020 at 10:23, Paddle said:

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=J7FkAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA272&lpg=PA272&dq=thames+net+fishing&source=bl&ots=Jz39f9B68j&sig=ACfU3U12YfKs8aabtXpQI-_Ow9oewSO90A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjCzfusv9joAhXZMMAKHf1cDvUQ6AEwEXoECA0QKQ#v=onepage&q=thames net fishing&f=false

 

Net fishing was certainly permitted in the Thames in 1670 - provided it did not obstruct the common passage of vessels or the 'destruction of the frie of fish'. Not sure what that means - fry?

Sounds likely. Fry as in juvenille fish.

[Tony Brooks]

On 08/04/2020 at 10:23, Paddle said:

Net fishing was certainly permitted in the Thames in 1670 - provided it did not obstruct the common passage of vessels or the 'destruction of the frie of fish'. Not sure what that means - fry?

 

No idea how long that went on for but it loos like a pound lock to me and it also looks like the upper Thames where mots locks were flash locks until fairly recent times - maybe 1800s

[GUMPY]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

No idea how long that went on for but it loos like a pound lock to me and it also looks like the upper Thames where mots locks were flash locks until fairly recent times - maybe 1800s

There was no lock at Bray until 1845 

[zenataomm]

Didn't Jerome K Jerome write of spreading nets across narrows for eels?

[MtB]

2 hours ago, mark99 said:

Sounds likely. Fry as in juvenille fish.

 

I thought that too. Even then it was prolly obvious that netting baby fish was a stoopid idea. 

 

And the Thames historically was a salmon river before the industrial revolution so I was wondering what fish the nets might catch that would be considered edible, but salmon is the obvious candidate.

 

Can't imagine eels being easy to catch with nets....

 

 

 

[Derek R.]

Most eels were caught in special eel traps. They looked like inverted cones made from wicker. There use to be a set across part of the river at Maidenhead - long since gone of course.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eel_buck#/media/File:Myles_Birket_Foster_The_Eel_Traps.jpg

[ditchcrawler]

Whitebait or Sprats https://www.nature.com/articles/134318b0

[MtB]

I caught an eel once when fishing. Terrifying thing. The slime on it was something else and despite chopping its head orf it carried on wriggling about for hours IIRC.

[mark99]

8 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I caught an eel once when fishing. Terrifying thing. The slime on it was something else and despite chopping its head orf it carried on wriggling about for hours IIRC.

 

 

I caught one just past midnight at that huge lake you see from the M3 in Shepperton. Huge great thing. I weighed it at 5lb 1 oz. As you say - a scary thing but was so astounded by it's size I had to weigh it rather than do what I wanted to do - run away. 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2020 by mark99

[OldGoat]

12 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

I caught an eel once when fishing. Terrifying thing. The slime on it was something else and despite chopping its head orf it carried on wriggling about for hours IIRC.

I don't wish to know that - kindly leave the room.....