Help me please (newbie alert)

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

I'd say it's the other way around. Once the value of a boat falls to a few thousand quid, shelling out a grand on docking it every 1 or 2 years makes no sense. 

You have got the 'Steel NB' mindset.

 

Lifting a Tupperware is around £100-£160 in a hoist, it can be held whilst in the hoist and bottom scrubbed, anodes fitted etc and then dropped back in.

But for painting, or jobs that take longer, it can be chocked up on the 'hard' and you pay a lift out and lift back in fee.

 

This is us getting the Cat hoisted in Italy :

 

 

 

 

[doratheexplorer]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Are you serious ?

 

Of course  - metal props, shafts, water inlets, exhausts etc etc.

 

 

Yes, I'm serious.  All the yoghurt pot owners I know have never put anodes on them.  It's also very rarely that they ever get them out of the water.  Your pictures don't look like what I call a yoghurt pot.

[Alan de Enfield]

8 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Yes, I'm serious.  All the yoghurt pot owners I know have never put anodes on them.  It's also very rarely that they ever get them out of the water.  Your pictures don't look like what I call a yoghurt pot.

Its a 36 footer.

 

When we had the little 23 foot 'Holiday' with a Volvo petrol inboard, and had a similar number of anodes as the bigger boat does.

Water inlets, prop etc.

 

SPECIFICATION:
Fairline 23 Holiday.
LO.A. :- 22' 1" (6.73m)
Hull No:- 2059.
Draft :- 2' 0" (0.61m) 
Construction:- Glass Reinforced Plastic (G.RP.)
Powered by:- single Volvo 170 6cyl inboard petrol engine.

 

 

When we had her up at the 'top end' of the Thames.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[doratheexplorer]

Just now, Alan de Enfield said:

Its a 36 footer.

 

When we had the little 23 foot 'Holiday' with a Volvo petrol inboard, and had a similar number of anodes as the bigger boat does.

Water inlets, prop etc.

 

 

When we had her up at the 'top end' of the Thames.

 

Your boat maintenance is very much not the norm for a £4000 Norman yoghurt pot.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Your boat maintenance is very much not the norm for a £4000 Norman yoghurt pot.

 

As I said earlier - that may be why it is a £4000 yoghurt pot and not an £8,000 yoghurt pot.

That could be why out of the 18+ boats I have owned I have sold every one, 'bar one', for more than they cost me (including additions and maintenance) both Tupperware cruisers and steel NB's.

The one I lost about £40,000 on was the one and only I ever had surveyed (I say surveyed, I'm not sure the surveyor actually visited the boat).

 

If the OP is looking for a well maintained, nothing to repair / replace / add too then £4k is not sufficient.

[doratheexplorer]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

As I said earlier - that may be why it is a £4000 yoghurt pot and not an £8,000 yoghurt pot.

That could be why out of the 18+ boats I have owned I have sold every one, 'bar one', for more than they cost me (including additions and maintenance) both Tupperware cruisers and steel NB's.

The one I lost about £40,000 on was the one and only I ever had surveyed (I say surveyed, I'm not sure the surveyor actually visited the boat).

 

If the OP is looking for a well maintained, nothing to repair / replace / add too then £4k is not sufficient.

I'm pretty sure that most buyers of £4k or 8K yoghurt pots aren't bothered about anodes.  I doubt it even crosses their minds, so I can't see how it would affect value.  I certainly wouldn't.  I'd just keep it in the water for as long as it lasted.  If the prop rusted through, I'd pull it out to replace the prop.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm pretty sure that most buyers of £4k or 8K yoghurt pots aren't bothered about anodes.  I doubt it even crosses their minds, so I can't see how it would affect value.  I certainly wouldn't.  I'd just keep it in the water for as long as it lasted.  If the prop rusted through, I'd pull it out to replace the prop.

I accept that is what many people (on Inland waterways do), but it is not just the prop is it.

 

I would suggest that by far the majority of 300,000+leisure boaters are GRP, and think that a great number of them are lifted out annually / bi-annually for C&M.

[doratheexplorer]

1 hour ago, Alan de Enfield said:

That really depends on how much work you plan (or are able) to do yourself.

 

Example - You could do an oil change yourself at a cost of (probably) £40 for oil and parts. If you pay a 'Boat engineer' to come and do it, it may well be £40 for parts + £50 an hour (including travelling) so could easily come to around £200.

Or you could buy a replacement outboard for that price.

 

When you lift the boat out each year ( cost ?) then are you able to scrape the slime and mussels off the bottom, or will you pay someone to do it ?

You don't need to lift it out each year.

 

When you get a water leak around one of the windows can you take out the window yourself and re-seal it or will you need to 'get a man in' ?

Gorilla Tape £5.

 

Running repairs / maintenance is probably far higher than for a house & boating only becomes economically viable if you can do, or are prepared to learn how to do much of the work yourself.

I know you're trying to be helpful, but you're coming at it from the perspective who clearly has plenty of money to throw at it.  Truth is, you can keep a little Norman going for peanuts.  At that sort of price, that's what most owners do.  Also, £200 for an oil change is ridiculous.  I tend to value my time quite highly so often get someone to work on my boat when I can't be bothered to do it myself.  A full service on my BMC 1.8 with new filters and all bells and whistles and three hours labour cost me £130 last year. And no, it wasn't done by some dodgy bloke I just met.  It was done by a very highly regarded mobile engineer.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, doratheexplorer said:

I know you're trying to be helpful, but you're coming at it from the perspective who clearly has plenty of money to throw at it.  Truth is, you can keep a little Norman going for peanuts.  At that sort of price, that's what most owners do.  Also, £200 for an oil change is ridiculous.  I tend to value my time quite highly so often get someone to work on my boat when I can't be bothered to do it myself.  A full service on my BMC 1.8 with new filters and all bells and whistles and three hours labour cost me £130 last year. And no, it wasn't done by some dodgy bloke I just met.  It was done by a very highly regarded mobile engineer.

 

Yes, of course in that regard a boat is similar to a house, you can spend nothing on it and it will fall apart in a few years, spend a bit each year and it will increase in value.

 

I have used mechanics for various jobs for which I may not have the correct tools, invariably they are £50+ per hour, an hours travel each way, an hour to do the job + parts and you are at £200.

 

It is up to the OP to decide if she wants a depreciating asset, or with some care an appreciating asset.

I value my money (investment) enough to look after it.

 

My No2 Son had his Suzuki 8hp outboard serviced at the back-end of last year. It was £200 + VAT + carrier both ways.

For someone not mechanically minded stripping an Outboard leg to change an impellor is not a job to be undertaken lightly.

[TheBiscuits]

10 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm pretty sure that most buyers of £4k or 8K yoghurt pots aren't bothered about anodes.  I doubt it even crosses their minds, so I can't see how it would affect value.  I certainly wouldn't.  I'd just keep it in the water for as long as it lasted.  If the prop rusted through, I'd pull it out to replace the prop

 

Most inland lower value GRP boats will have either an outboard or a stern drive.  You can replace the anodes on these expensive bits without lifting the boat out of the water.

 

The anodes for my Z-drive were about £10 when I replaced them some years ago, so probably £15 now.

 

Replacing the leg would cost about £4000 ...

 

Friends who have shaft drive boats have been known to jump in the water to change anodes (usually in summer!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Most inland lower value GRP boats will have either an outboard or a stern drive.  You can replace the anodes on these expensive bits without lifting the boat out of the water.

 

The anodes for my Z-drive were about £10 when I replaced them some years ago, so probably £15 now.

 

Replacing the leg would cost about £4000 ...

 

Friends who have shaft drive boats have been known to jump in the water to change anodes (usually in summer!)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah - so there are some 'low value' boats that do have their anodes replaced.

 

Do they 'de-mussel' the boats in the water as well ?

 

When we were out of the water we had an interesting discussion with the 'Yard', with them saying that they are getting requests more and more frequently from Steel NB owners to weld a bolt(s) onto the hull so that anodes can be bolted on (as per GRP boats) to save having to have the boat lifted and pay for them to be welded on.

The new anodes can then be DIY fitted simply whilst standing in the water.

 

Seems like Dora knows some different boaters to us.

28 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

I'm pretty sure that most buyers of £4k or 8K yoghurt pots aren't bothered about anodes. 

 

[WotEver]

5 hours ago, doratheexplorer said:

This one looks like it might suit you. https://www.greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/shop/delusions/

What a lovely little boat

[fennylock]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, it’s given me food for thought. I am not moving from the area or house so when I buy a boat it will be for foreseeable future...I already know it fits our lifestyle, I just don’t want to rush and get a pile of shit. I would want to maintain it so that it lasts years as even £4000-£6000 is a lot of money...sure nothing compared to real boats and expensive beautiful things but I wouldn’t want to toss it about regardless as I haven’t won the lottery yet ?

 

So I think I might need to save up a bit further still and get some sort of row boat in the meantime! More madness I’m sure but why not. Would people think it ludicrous to leave such a boat chained up to said mooring? Would obviously need a fully waterproof cover and decent width chain. It is a small mooring plenty of narrowboats about as live-ins but (and a big but) it’s not private so anyone can pass by using the circular walking route... am being an idiot to think it will be safe enough there if chained to the side appropriately? Blow ups I suppose are an option but then I loose the mooring and how easy are these really to manage on own with gear and cheeky dog? 

 

Sorry for the the daft questions, I just really want to get out on the water regularly!

[Alan de Enfield]

22 minutes ago, fennylock said:

I would want to maintain it so that it lasts years as even £4000-£6000 is a lot of money.

Exactly and I completely agree with you.

The only reason not to go for a 'rowing boat' (or open boat) is that lack of 'facilities' for nights / weekends away may mean you don't get much use out of it.

 

We started on the canals / rivers with an 8 foot Newbourne GRP 'Roof-Topper' and a 4HP outboard. Fine for tootling about for the day but not an 'overnighter' unless you want to camp.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@fennylock

Two boats for £7500.

 

Maybe get one for £4000 ?

You'd carefully need to look at the condition.

 

Its overplated, it has an outboard - who knows some elbow grease and a tin of paint ……………………...

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/23-Springer-narrowboat-27-lifeboat-Canal-boat-Live-aboard-projects-/143573954639?_trksid=p2385738.m4383.l4275.c10

Edited April 7, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[fennylock]

Ooh will take a look, thanks, like the look of the narrow boat. I mean it’s all a moot point at the moment but the more research I do the more prepared I’ll be when we can leave our houses again! 

 

Am am I missing any other ‘small’ basic boats that might do the trick for weekends and odd four day trips? Doesn’t need to be massive inside, we would mainly be cruising, walking or reading. Main sticking points therefore just about quality and value for money more so than space. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by fennylock

[fennylock]

Ooh this one I like, need to get saving ?

 

https://motorboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/shetland-saxon/632630

[Alan de Enfield]

12 minutes ago, fennylock said:

Ooh this one I like, need to get saving ?

 

https://motorboats.apolloduck.co.uk/boat/shetland-saxon/632630

 

Perfect example of what you can get for £8K+.

Even get a trailer so you don't need pay for a mooring (if you have a car to tow it), no need to pay for lift outs or lift-ins.

No need to pay for a big truck to fetch it from Scotland - just a 'mate with a tow-bar'.

 

 

[fennylock]

Thanks for all your help, I sort of see it now. This type of boat I can see myself using for years and years, looking after it well etc. I just can’t do the dark, dirty, dingy thing! Will save longer and buy in winter when I guess the market is better anyhow!

[Alan de Enfield]

53 minutes ago, fennylock said:

Thanks for all your help, I sort of see it now. This type of boat I can see myself using for years and years, looking after it well etc. I just can’t do the dark, dirty, dingy thing! Will save longer and buy in winter when I guess the market is better anyhow!

Good luck - stay at home, save, save, save, Buy a boat.

[jocave]

That was the bottom of my old boat , not been out for years , one hour with a jet wash and it went straight back in , engine service kit was £80 including impeller and that was done more than once with the boat still in the water , just backed it up a slipway and put some wellies on, anode on the outboard looked as good as new, nothing else below the waterline to worry about, did more or less a full refit inside but that was just a personal preference thing , it used hardly any petrol, the Eberspacher used hardly any diesel , the gas cooking and the instant hot water heater for the sink and shower went through quite a bit but overall running costs were peanuts... 

[Tony Brooks]

If you can find something like a Fairline 19 it might suit. its small but abridgedly 6ft 10 inch beam with two berths. Some may have a two burner hob on a work surface. There were many of this type of small "weekend" cruisers built by several makers in the 70s/80s

[jocave]

http://www.bridgehousemarina.co.uk/boatmoreinfo.asp?BoatIDParam=10

[jocave]

Plenty out there that would suit you , don't worry about where the boat is , these size boats can easily and cheaply be moved on a trailer with a 4x4 , mine went from Garstang to Llangollen canal for £160 , Llangollen  to Norfolk for £290 , Norfolk to Garstang for £260 back to Llangollen for £170 then Llangollen to Magull on the L+L for £150

[TheBiscuits]

5 minutes ago, jocave said:

http://www.bridgehousemarina.co.uk/boatmoreinfo.asp?BoatIDParam=10

Note the beam though - Viking 20s are over 7' wide so won't fit on the narrow canals.

[Tony Brooks]

6 minutes ago, jocave said:

http://www.bridgehousemarina.co.uk/boatmoreinfo.asp?BoatIDParam=10

That one quotes a 7ft 4 in beam, too wide for narrow canals but might fit.