What's the aversion for gas cooking on a boat?

[RAB]

Seem to remember hiring a boat that had a diesel oven! Think you can get hobs as well but not confirmed via the web. Remember thinking wouldn’t the oven smell and taint the food but everything was good. We tend to remember bad things more easily!!!!!

[TheBiscuits]

7 minutes ago, RAB said:

Seem to remember hiring a boat that had a diesel oven! Think you can get hobs as well but not confirmed via the web. 

They are nice, but they are too hot in summer (always on)  and they are far from being a cheap option.

 

 

[peterboat]

I have the rayburn which for most of the year works well providing heat, hot water, central heating and cooking, its awesome better than gas but dirty [most of us have stoves] so it doesnt matter, for the time its to hot I BBQ, eat out or have salads. the BSS is very quick for me with no diesel engine as well, I think it was about 7 minutes maybe less a true joy

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, TheBiscuits said:

They are nice, but they are too hot in summer (always on)  and they are far from being a cheap option.

 

 

Some years ago we saw a very new NB with a AGA installed. To compound potential 'problems' the kitchen are was very small - akin to a spare loo.

It was a warm day

The kitchen was quite hot.

 

The owner said ahhh...

 

Sometimes folks dash in with loadsa' cash and the builder takes a deep breath, tries to remonstrate - mebe gives up and does what the customere asks.

 

(I was glad to choose who I did use, listened to his umm 'suggestions' and accepted his compromises, because he knew what good and I didn't. 

I'm only sorry that when I'd finished and launched the boat I didn't show him how it turned out...

 

 

[peterboat]

1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

Some years ago we saw a very new NB with a AGA installed. To compound potential 'problems' the kitchen are was very small - akin to a spare loo.

It was a warm day

The kitchen was quite hot.

 

The owner said ahhh...

 

Sometimes folks dash in with loadsa' cash and the builder takes a deep breath, tries to remonstrate - mebe gives up and does what the customere asks.

 

(I was glad to choose who I did use, listened to his umm 'suggestions' and accepted his compromises, because he knew what good and I didn't. 

I'm only sorry that when I'd finished and launched the boat I didn't show him how it turned out...

 

 

Mine is a widebeam and the kitchen is big with 2 side doors and it opens into the wheelhouse, so heat can escape, tonight I have rayburn on and one side door open its lovely

[TheBiscuits]

Yeah, there's something nice about an aga/rayburn type stove, especially if you have a separate gas hob so you can have a brew in summer!

 

I was thinking more of the Wallas diesel hobs and stoves.

 

https://www.kuranda.co.uk/product-category/wallas/wallas-diesel-hobs-and-ovens/

 

[OldGoat]

2 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Mine is a widebeam and the kitchen is big with 2 side doors and it opens into the wheelhouse, so heat can escape, tonight I have rayburn on and one side door open its lovely

I bet it is - you (or whoever) did the layout has got it right.

result -

satisfaction (hopefully all round)

 

It's those that insist on 'whatever' that gets my "user ID" and the result is a pig's ear

[peterboat]

3 hours ago, OldGoat said:

I bet it is - you (or whoever) did the layout has got it right.

result -

satisfaction (hopefully all round)

 

It's those that insist on 'whatever' that gets my "user ID" and the result is a pig's ear

Oh yes its lovely now radiators warm everything cosy, in a narrowboat it would be to much sunless it was a 70 footer with double side doors.  The reality is as you say gas works great for cooking,  my system I designed in gas just works so controllable and clean what's not to like?

[Slim]

11 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I still have gas lights in one of my boats.

 

Dunno about tellys but you used to be able to get a steam radio, according to folklore. 

 

Still not sure if they were a real thing or just a turn of phrase....

 

 

Don't know about steam radio but don't forget crystal sets, they worked without anything. My dad made me one when I was about 9 - 10. circa 1956. It was in a wooden box which measured 12" x 12" x 12". It had a number of switches, dials and terminals for aerial and earth. A wire led into the bathroom for the earth and my model train track layout was the aerial. It was only years later that I discovered that several of the switches were just for show ? They fooled me at the time.

[nbfiresprite]

40 years ago I had a old type campingaz stove (bayonet type) blow up in my face (1st,2nd degree burns to face and neck) when one of the brackets failed, releasing the gas can which had no safety valve.  The nearly full can produced a spectacular fireball according to the rest of the group who were with me on that camping trip. Since then I have had a dislike for gas cooking more so with the use of heavy than air gases (LPG) on boats which allow gas to pool in the bottom of the boat when there is a leak. For cooking I use for most of the year a SF range, In the summer months a small 500w induction hob and a (700w) small oven when on the shoreline and a Dometic Origo Two 2 burner spirit stove when out.

 

 

 

https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/sailing-skills/crash-test-boat-gas-explosion-29779

 

[Woodwych]

13 hours ago, TheBiscuits said:

Yeah, there's something nice about an aga/rayburn type stove, especially if you have a separate gas hob so you can have a brew in summer!

 

I was thinking more of the Wallas diesel hobs and stoves.

 

https://www.kuranda.co.uk/product-category/wallas/wallas-diesel-hobs-and-ovens/

 

I have just fitted a Wallas oven ( and will also have a 2 ring induction hob) It heats up quickly and can be turned off whenever you want. And of course you have simplicity of having a large diesel tank already there.  It makes loads of sense in a gas free boat but is very expensive. I have no links with Kuranda but bought mine from there. Darren is incredibly helpful.

[jonesthenuke]

2 hours ago, Woodwych said:

I have just fitted a Wallas oven ( and will also have a 2 ring induction hob) It heats up quickly and can be turned off whenever you want. And of course you have simplicity of having a large diesel tank already there.  It makes loads of sense in a gas free boat but is very expensive. I have no links with Kuranda but bought mine from there. Darren is incredibly helpful.

We have a Wallas oven and hob. Whilst both work and are clean with zero smell of diesel, we find them very slow. To offset this problems we have a microwave and a cheap single ring induction hob and far prefer the induction hob to the Wallas gear.

 

Our Wallas is over 10 years old, so perhaps the newer models are quicker.  Having no gas certainly makes the BSS quicker. 

[MtB]

2 hours ago, Woodwych said:

I have just fitted a Wallas oven ( and will also have a 2 ring induction hob) It heats up quickly and can be turned off whenever you want. And of course you have simplicity of having a large diesel tank already there.

 

The website mentions twice that they have no open flame, but gives no clue about how they work.

 

My guess is they must have an enclosed flame with and air supply duct and an exhaust duct, fan powered and both going out through the hull. Is that right?

 

Or do they use catalytic flameless combustion? 

[blackrose]

People talk about gas leaks and explosions on boats but how often do these actually happen in the UK?

 

I don't know but I assume the numbers are very low mainly thanks to stringent BSS inspections.

[Alan de Enfield]

26 minutes ago, blackrose said:

People talk about gas leaks and explosions on boats but how often do these actually happen in the UK?

 

I don't know but I assume the numbers are very low mainly thanks to stringent BSS inspections.

Looking at FIRES & EXPLOSIONS.

There is a higher percentage 'per boat' on boats subject to the BSS than there is on non-BSS boats.

 

Ignoring the 18 'unknown' there is a higher risk of fire from your electrical system, your engine or your Solid Fuel stove than there is from the Gas system.

However the Gas explosion may be instantaneous and much more damaging that a SF fire (for example)

 

Note

a) Total incidents (counting the further affected boats) – 102,

b) Total incidents on inland waterways only – 85.

Generally, incidents from the coast are included unless specifically excluded. This is on the basis that the risk assessment and judgements should take account of relevant risk information if it can be associated with boats and systems in use on inland waterways.

 

Inland Waterways ONLY.

 

 

Table A4   Trends in systems & causes, Inland waterways only [Note - All fire & CO events only]	2018	2017	2016	2015	2014	2013	2012
Totals	54	69	65	63	69	91	80
Deliberate Fire setting	5	11	5	11	12	11	11
Conflagration	3	4	5	11	3	3	5
Totals of accidental and original incidents	46	54	55	41	54	75	64
Bullseyes	-	1	0	0	0	0	0
Electrical [system / appliances]	6	7	11	7	8	15	15
Engine / engine room / exhaust	7	2	7	2	5	6	4
Flammable vapours (not yet identified)	2	7	5	4	3	3	2
Other domestic, galley, smoking, candles, etc	0	2	4	1	0	0	3
Gas escape / installed gas appliance	2	3	3	2	0	4	3
Not known [inconclusive / tbc to BSS]	18	21	10	15	27	28	21
Oil fired stoves and heaters [installed]	3	3	-	1	0	1	2
Other [inc machinery, welding, DIY, etc]	0	0	-	-	2	1	2
Petrol related – leaks, refuelling, etc	1	2	2	2	2	2	2
Portable engines / outboards / generators	0	1	-	-	2	2	0
Portable items [lpg, oil, BBQ, electric, etc]	1	0	1	-	0	2	0
Solid fuel stoves	6	6	12	7	5	13	10

Edited April 5, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[jonesthenuke]

33 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

The website mentions twice that they have no open flame, but gives no clue about how they work.

 

My guess is they must have an enclosed flame with and air supply duct and an exhaust duct, fan powered and both going out through the hull. Is that right?

 

Or do they use catalytic flameless combustion? 

I am not sure how they work exactly, but they are totally enclosed with a sealed air intake and separate exhaust. One benefit of this is that the BSS ventilation requirements become much less. When I calculated the requirements for our boat I found we had about 3 times the vent area required (we have diesel heating).

[zenataomm]

This thread seems to be going in the direction I echo, so my slant ........

 

I have no aversion to cooking with gas, I am however quite allergic to my bilges exploding.

I do cook with gas, but would change if there were an effective alternative.

I am old enough to remember boating 20 years prior to BSS.  It was a common sight to see so many cruisers made from converted lifeboats and pontoons, probably most of which were diy conversions.  Sadly it was not uncommon on a holiday to see at least one hull burnt to the waterline.

In the early 70s there was a GRP cruiser on those moorings just South of Braunston tunnel left in that condition for nearly two years. 

I read of a steel hulled nb around that time that ended up with the profile of a cigar tube, its owner was propelled through the hatch above his porta-potti and benefitted from a rare view of his boat from 20 feet up.  A passing boat averted their eyes as his trousers were around his ankles.

I think it was a combination of ignorance and British bloody mindedness (not dissimilar to what we're witnessing currently in our countryside!)  We all knew spilt gas sat in the bilges for ever, but kind of saw it as something to avoid only if you could.

An old bloke on our moorings was complaining about how much gas he was getting through, even so it never occurred to him to turn it off at the bottle when he left it.  Someone offered to do the soapy water test for him.  It didn't take long to find where he had removed a junction which had once supplied a gas lamp.  Being a handy man, he'd not only screwed up a bit of paper to shove down the pipe, but he'd sensibly stuffed a blob of plasticine over it some months later when the smell was getting to him.

One year I was about to enter Crick tunnel, there was a hire boat from Bletchley sitting outside with the floor up.  I stopped to see if I could help.  It seemed the engine had failed and appeared to have no compression.  It was a small air cooled Lister and the wave of heat coming off it was impressive, yet it was nothing to the state the calor gas bottle that was sitting where the air trunking should have been.  You could have fried chips on it.

 

So you see this was normality pre BSS.  Thankfully we now do have BSS, bilge blowers and gas alarms.  However I'd still throw mine away if I could.

When I bought my current boat 11 years ago, the first thing I did was rip out the fridge and water heater.  Although once the fridge was out most of the risk was gone due to fridge pilot lights being the main cause of ignition.  I hate the stuff.

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, zenataomm said:

 

 

So you see this was normality pre BSS.  Thankfully we now do have BSS, bilge blowers and gas alarms.   

They are not BSS requirements

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, ditchcrawler said:

They are not BSS requirements

Tush, tush - perhaps better would be  -

"we have BSS AND bilge blowers and unspecified gas alarms" CO gas alarms  are required but not propane ones - if such a thing exists...

[Rickent]

On 04/04/2020 at 11:48, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I still have gas lights in one of my boats.

 

Dunno about tellys but you used to be able to get a steam radio, according to folklore. 

 

Still not sure if they were a real thing or just a turn of phrase....

 

 

Only available on 1st April.

 

Edited. Should have read the whole thread, seems there really is such a thing.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Rickent

[peterboat]

40 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Tush, tush - perhaps better would be  -

"we have BSS AND bilge blowers and unspecified gas alarms" CO gas alarms  are required but not propane ones - if such a thing exists...

They do I used to use one on gas conversions on cars, other smells could trigger it though 

[MtB]

4 minutes ago, peterboat said:

They do I used to use one on gas conversions on cars, other smells could trigger it though 

 

<<<Snigger>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

57 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

but not propane ones - if such a thing exists...

 

Very common on Boats.

 

https://marinestore.co.uk/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=cu33110&gclid=CjwKCAjwg6b0BRBMEiwANd1_SLIoGc53Yul5gezjaPVddwHPmcIoPemjW_0igb9n__ZS13_mjdBESBoC2rYQAvD_BwE

 

Description

Pilot Gas Alarm Single - Every boat should have a Gas Alarm as leaking gas that sinks down into the bilges can be extremely dangerous. This is an effective alarm which will detect butane and propane gas well before escaping gases build up to dangerous levels. It has a loud 85 decibel alarm with red warning light, a single sensor with 3.5m of cable and a test switch.

-Unit Size: 35 x 53 x 100mm -Current Draw: 90 milliamps (100 milliamps in event of alarm)

 

Edited April 5, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[peterboat]

42 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

<<<Snigger>>>

 

 

 

 

 

 

You got it ?

[Keeping Up]

My dog learned that when he woke in the mornings, he could summon an immediate response from his humans by sitting next to the sensor and emitting some wind. 6am every morning that alarm went off, until I moved the sensor.