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Finding the right NB


Callum4878

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Hi, my wife and I have decided to take the plunge and buy a narrowboat. The aim is to permanent cruise for a few years, and travel extensively around the network, so it’s a 57/58ft boat we’d like really. Bad timing on our part, with this lockdown in place, but we have chosen six boats so far that we’d like to view. Two of are vintage engine type, and one is an all electric boat.

Any general advice on the buying process and boat types would be gratefully received. This is my first post.

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1 minute ago, Callum4878 said:

Hi, my wife and I have decided to take the plunge and buy a narrowboat. The aim is to permanent cruise for a few years, and travel extensively around the network, so it’s a 57/58ft boat we’d like really. Bad timing on our part, with this lockdown in place, but we have chosen six boats so far that we’d like to view. Two of are vintage engine type, and one is an all electric boat.

Any general advice on the buying process and boat types would be gratefully received. This is my first post.

 

Don't buy the electric one. There is only one in the UK that works properly. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Callum4878 said:

Hi, my wife and I have decided to take the plunge and buy a narrowboat. The aim is to permanent cruise for a few years, and travel extensively around the network, so it’s a 57/58ft boat we’d like really. Bad timing on our part, with this lockdown in place, but we have chosen six boats so far that we’d like to view. Two of are vintage engine type, and one is an all electric boat.

Any general advice on the buying process and boat types would be gratefully received. This is my first post.

Welcome to the forum.

There are so many ways to decide what you want, but most of them involve going to actually see the boats in question, which you can’t do at the moment.

You can decide a few things that are in your control: budget, size, style of boat.

Look at pictures, say ‘I like that, or I don’t like that’.

These sorts of general questions, like how practical are you both, as it really helps to be able to do a lot of the basic maintenance yourselves.

Good luck.

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By "all electric" do you mean electric powered, or that it is "gas-less"-i.e.all cooking is by electricity.

There's a big difference between the two, but I'd recommend neither of them!

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2 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

By "all electric" do you mean electric powered, or that it is "gas-less"-i.e.all cooking is by electricity.

There's a big difference between the two, but I'd recommend neither of them!

 

 

Yes I took the OP to mean electric propulsion, not electric cooking. Perhaps Callum could clarify?

 

 

 

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Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, by all electric I didn’t mean propulsion too, should have said gas free really. Boat in question has a massive 10KVA inverter.

Have done a fair bit of research and have six boats on our list to view, and an extensive wish list.

I was a multi skilled maintenance engineer, serving my time initially as a diesel fitter, hence the preference for a vintage engine.

Have considered a new build, but don’t like the idea of a long wait.

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15 minutes ago, Callum4878 said:

Sorry, by all electric I didn’t mean propulsion too, should have said gas free really. Boat in question has a massive 10KVA inverter.

Inverter or generator?

 

If it has a 10kVA diesel generator set it will work fine as an electric cooking boat.  It's the people who try and skip this bit and get away with one solar panel that struggle with gasfree cooking.

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It’s the inverter that’s rated at 10KVA, not the generator, which I think is 5KVA, but it has about 900Ah of domestic batteries, which would take some charging I’m thinking! Unfortunately it hasn’t got a Gardner or Lister engine, but I don’t expect to get everything on my wish list!

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1 minute ago, Callum4878 said:

It’s the inverter that’s rated at 10KVA, not the generator, which I think is 5KVA, but it has about 900Ah of domestic batteries, which would take some charging I’m thinking! Unfortunately it hasn’t got a Gardner or Lister engine, but I don’t expect to get everything on my wish list!

Whatever you buy you will find things you dont like, your wants needs will evolve over a time with ownership. Two things a 10kva inverter is plain daft as is such a large expensive battery bank, and gas free boats are worth about five shillings to anybody other than the first owner. Look at every advert for boats for sale and see how many are gas free and ask yourself why. Gas is a superb, extremely safe extremely well suited form of cooking and on occasion for hot water for boating needs.

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8 minutes ago, Callum4878 said:

It’s the inverter that’s rated at 10KVA, not the generator, which I think is 5KVA,

I must have a 'zero' in the wrong place.

 

A 10KVA inverter, at 'full chat' is going to be drawing 1000 amps from a 12v battery system it must have supply cabling that looks like 2" diameter copper rods.

 

 

Don't think that 900Ah is a big battery bank - for a liveaboard it would be quite small. (I am not a liveaboard and have 6x 230Ah batteries) .

 

Remember that some vintage engines will struggle to provide sufficient charging due to low revs and the inability to get a big enough pulley to drive the alternator at sufficiently high revs.

Air cooled vintage engines also present the problem of getting hot water.

 

Moving from land to being a NB liveaboard will be a big enough 'change in lifestyle' without putting unnecessary obstacles in the way.

 

PS - don't go for the all electric option !

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1 hour ago, Callum4878 said:

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry, by all electric I didn’t mean propulsion too, should have said gas free really. Boat in question has a massive 10KVA inverter.

Have done a fair bit of research and have six boats on our list to view, and an extensive wish list.

I was a multi skilled maintenance engineer, serving my time initially as a diesel fitter, hence the preference for a vintage engine.

Have considered a new build, but don’t like the idea of a long wait.

 Beta sell 'exactly' what you want - But, but, but you'd be unlikely to find one on the used market, unless you are extremenly lucky. That's because the're very expensive.

Looky here - https://betamarine.co.uk/portfolio-item/kc-hybrid-propulsion/

I saw one some years ago. It had the  cocooned engine offset (purchaser's choice) with the electric motor close fitted in the stern. The engine was fresh water cooled and the whole effect was one of near silent drive.

 

 

Add: Vintage engines

These are / can be lovely but charging a large battery bank - or even a decent sized on is very difficult because the engin is slow revving, but a good alternator ieed lots of 'revolutions'. The 'gearing' to achieve this needs a huge pulley.  A better solution would be a water cooled genset - and that would solve both of your requirements, but it would take  some space...

With electric cooking you have to run the engine, but given that the engine is quiet, that wasn't a huge disadvantage.

I submit that you'd be very unlikely to find one on the used market as so few were made.

I would not, not, not be a solution to run a cooker  / microwave / washing machine off an inverter  as it would need a very very large battery bank  and that would have to be 48v (noway 12 and mebe 24v).

 

I don't understand what the problem is with gas cooking - My Management doesn't like gas, but she understands the reason why we have it and quite apart from the not-so-muffled expletives when she can't light the oven / rings (the grill always starts from the pietzo), she cooks better than with the home electric machine.

But ther you go.... 

Edited by OldGoat
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Callum, if you care to post links to the sales details of the boats which interest you, you'll find that our members have a wealth of experience and that many of them will be happy to express their opinions frankly - so don't take it personally if one of us says that the boat which looks wonderful to you is actually a heap of guano.

   

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1 hour ago, Callum4878 said:

hence the preference for a vintage engine.

Have considered a new build, but don’t like the idea of a long wait.

 

I'm afraid a new build is off the menu then. RCD regulations prevent a vintage engine being installed in a new boat.

 

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4 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'm afraid a new build is off the menu then. RCD regulations prevent a vintage engine being installed in a new boat.

 

I thought that that had been the case since about 2016, yet apparently a few still are installed, aren't they? I think there's a loophole if the new boat is a "replica" of an old one, though how one defines that term is open to interpretation.

Edited by Athy
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I'm in no way committed to this boat, had my own reservations about it, some of which some of you have reiterated. It also has a cruiser stern which I dont particularly like. I would prefer something a little more traditional, and two of my chosen six are just that, whether or not I can talk my other half into one I'm not sure. Its frustrating to think that its going to be some time before I get to see any of them, but I have spoken to the brokerages and expressed an interest.

One of my chosen is a private seller, any drawbacks to this?

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1 minute ago, Callum4878 said:

I'm in no way committed to this boat, had my own reservations about it, some of which some of you have reiterated. It also has a cruiser stern which I dont particularly like. I would prefer something a little more traditional, and two of my chosen six are just that, whether or not I can talk my other half into one I'm not sure. Its frustrating to think that its going to be some time before I get to see any of them, but I have spoken to the brokerages and expressed an interest.

One of my chosen is a private seller, any drawbacks to this?

Behing a good broker there is often a private seller. It's mebe that a good broker will price the vessel sensibly, but the owner - the converse...

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1 minute ago, Callum4878 said:

I'm in no way committed to this boat, had my own reservations about it, some of which some of you have reiterated. It also has a cruiser stern which I dont particularly like. I would prefer something a little more traditional, and two of my chosen six are just that, whether or not I can talk my other half into one I'm not sure. Its frustrating to think that its going to be some time before I get to see any of them, but I have spoken to the brokerages and expressed an interest.

One of my chosen is a private seller, any drawbacks to this?

To be fair a private seller is oft better. You deal straight with the organ grinder not his monkey and not going through a middle man you know whatever you say is going straight to the owner, remember a broker is only that, a broker. When I sell I sometimes use a broker as they can cut out some of the muppets for you if you lay the rules down but buying private is fine.

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3 minutes ago, Athy said:

I thought that that had been the case since about 2016, yet apparently a few still are installed, aren't they? I think there's a loophole if the new boat is a "replica" of an old one, though how one defines that term is open to interpretation.

If it is an exact historic replica of a pre 1950s design and you can fit any engine you like,

 

Alternatively, you CAN fit a Vintage engine is it can be made to achieve the emission standards required.

 

The RCD does not say 'you cannot fit vintage engines' but is does say that ANY engine fitted must meet the required standards.

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Gas free boat? Consider when you want to brew up at 4am cos you ate too much the night before, your neighbours will not like you starting up a 40hp diesel.

Live aboard needs all the cabin space you can get on a 58 ft boat, hence my preference for trad sterns. Better too for cruising in bad weather, you are not out on an open deck in the rain.

Semi trad I never understood, its a waste of 5ft of boat in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Alternatively, you CAN fit a Vintage engine is it can be made to achieve the emission standards required.

 

Can you cite a vintage engine that can be made to comply?

 

I don't think there is one.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

If it is an exact historic replica of a pre 1950s design and you can fit any engine you like,

 

Alternatively, you CAN fit a Vintage engine is it can be made to achieve the emission standards required.

 

The RCD does not say 'you cannot fit vintage engines' but is does say that ANY engine fitted must meet the required standards.

Please sir,

Does the original caveat of 'if the boat is not sold within 5 years' no longer apply?

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