Middle Level Licencing arrangements

[erivers]

I'm sorry if people found some of my remarks offensive. 

 

I fully appreciate the difficulties experienced by authorities during the present circumstances but I cannot and will never condone any authority acting outside of its legal remit. 

 

They knew right back in April when they first set a date for commencement of registration that they did not yet have the legal authority.  They also knew a few weeks ago when they amended the date to 1st September.  A little bit of transparency would not have come amiss.

 

The Middle Level Commissioners will, quite rightly, expect their registered boaters to fully abide by the law and to expect sanctions and penalties if they do not.  Is it not perfectly reasonable to expect the MLC to demonstrate the same respect and compliance?

 

I did ask the MLC directly about these matters but, and quite understandably in the present circumstances, have yet to receive a response.

 

They will have my full support to introduce charges to benefit the navigation as soon as they are legally entitled to do so.  

 

[wonderdust]

A friend has a boat at foxes and she very rarely goes there, if I had not informed her about this impending licence she would not of had a clue, foxes themselves have not informed her and why should they.

What have MLC done exactly to find out and inform boat owners of the new upcoming licensing,  a virus is no excuse, because I'm sure they will be more than happy to fine come the day.

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, wonderdust said:

 

What have MLC done exactly to find out and inform boat owners of the new upcoming licensing,  a virus is no excuse, because I'm sure they will be more than happy to fine come the day.

I don't know, but it won't be an easy task. There are lots of boats dotted around the Level which look fairly neglected but which all belong to somebody - finding those somebodies might require the transfer of Hercule Poirot from the Lichfield & Hatherton. I can think of at least three such craft in this village  and, as I see that you live in March, I'm sure you know some too.

 

What makes you think that the MLC would be "More than happy to fine"?

[Christine C]

2 hours ago, Athy said:

Welcome to CWDF, Christine, and thanks for your news and comments.

Thanks Athy, and thanks to you or whoever sorted out my sign in problems! 

[nbfiresprite]

18 minutes ago, Athy said:

I don't know, but it won't be an easy task. There are lots of boats dotted around the Level which look fairly neglected but which all belong to somebody - finding those somebodies might require the transfer of Hercule Poirot from the Lichfield & Hatherton. I can think of at least three such craft in this village  and, as I see that you live in March, I'm sure you know some too.

 

What makes you think that the MLC would be "More than happy to fine"?

There are a few that the MLC would like to remove from their waters. 

[Christine C]

I cannot speak directly for MLC or any committee member, but I believe that you can all rest assured that MLC will be doing its best to communicate clearly and efficiently with everyone at the earliest possible time. I also firmly believe we can be quite certain that they will comply with the law and are harbouring no sneaky notions about ways to impose fines!  

   

[ditchcrawler]

If there is at present no registration of boats on the Middle Level so no record or identification of boats there and consequently no record of the owners of those boats how can the ML be expected to contact them all? It seems bit of a tall order. Surly a better way would be for all marina owners to contact their moorers who they all have contact details of to ensure that their customers (and income stream) are aware of such major changes.

[Athy]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If there is at present no registration of boats on the Middle Level so no record or identification of boats there and consequently no record of the owners of those boats how can the ML be expected to contact them all? It seems bit of a tall order. 

Yes, absolutely, as I suggested a few posts ago. Unless the people live on their boats it will be hard.  

[wonderdust]

12 minutes ago, Christine C said:

I cannot speak directly for MLC or any committee member, but I believe that you can all rest assured that MLC will be doing its best to communicate clearly and efficiently with everyone at the earliest possible time. I also firmly believe we can be quite certain that they will comply with the law and are harbouring no sneaky notions about ways to impose fines!  

   

I'll let my friend know and tell her to wait for the bill to drop through her letterbox.

[Christine C]

1 minute ago, wonderdust said:

I'll let my friend know and tell her to wait for the bill to drop through her letterbox.

Oh ye of little faith!

[Athy]

22 minutes ago, nbfiresprite said:

There are a few that the MLC would like to remove from their waters. 

No doubt - but they didn't over-exert themselves to fine or move on some long-term overstayers almost outside their front door a couple of years back, if I remember correctly. This doesn't suggest that they're "More than happy to fine" boaters.

[wonderdust]

Yep!

[Athy]

2 minutes ago, wonderdust said:

Yep!

In what way?

[Christine C]

15 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If there is at present no registration of boats on the Middle Level so no record or identification of boats there and consequently no record of the owners of those boats how can the ML be expected to contact them all? It seems bit of a tall order. Surly a better way would be for all marina owners to contact their moorers who they all have contact details of to ensure that their customers (and income stream) are aware of such major changes.

My understanding is that arrangements have been put in place to work through marinas, but a great many boats are not in marinas, just moored up along the Middle Level waters.  The MLC has a very difficult task to deal with.  

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, wonderdust said:

I'll let my friend know and tell her to wait for the bill to drop through her letterbox.

How do you expect them to know who your friend is or that they even own a boat let alone keep it at Fox's, Have they contacted the MLC to tell them.  Fox's can't give the MLC details about who have boats in their marina.

5 minutes ago, Athy said:

No doubt - but they didn't over-exert themselves to fine or move on some long-term overstayers almost outside their front door a couple of years back, if I remember correctly. This doesn't suggest that they're "More than happy to fine" boaters.

Did /do they have the powers to do that unless the boat is abandoned and look at the stink that caused a few years ago. Its not helped by posts on Facebook saying come to the ML and just moor at March as long as you like.

[erivers]

I'm reluctant to add more to what I've already said on this issue except to say that the MLC registration byelaws empowering them to make charges are treated in exactly the same way as local authority legislation,  It has to be openly advertised in local newspapers and the London Gazette, as does the formal approval of the Sec. of State when that is given.

 

The onus is then on those affected by that legislation to comply.  

 

It is therefore important that the correct procedures are followed but that does not have to place any additional burden on the MLC to inform individuals.

[nbfiresprite]

50 minutes ago, Christine C said:

My understanding is that arrangements have been put in place to work through marinas, but a great many boats are not in marinas, just moored up along the Middle Level waters.  The MLC has a very difficult task to deal with.  

About 120 at the last count

[nbfiresprite]

50 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

How do you expect them to know who your friend is or that they even own a boat let alone keep it at Fox's, Have they contacted the MLC to tell them.  Fox's can't give the MLC details about who have boats in their marina.

Did /do they have the powers to do that unless the boat is abandoned and look at the stink that caused a few years ago. Its not helped by posts on Facebook saying come to the ML and just moor at March as long as you like.

There four of them at the moment on the Town moorings, this has covered the mooring and the bankside with his crap. He also been here three years. The mooring are owned by the council. According to the MLC it is up to the Council to remove them.  The council since putting up the new moorings have done not a thing to enforce them. Instead their prefered action is to come  up with reasons why they cannot remove them.   

 

As to the blue boat owned by a NBTA member that was removed after it sank on the town moorings while he was doing time for shoplifting and other crimes. The only stink was casued by the NBTA who brought 'Rent a Mob' up from London on the day the boat was removed.  The MLC had the support of the locals who cheered when it was removed. 

[WindlassFree]

It appears to me that MLC have failed to engage with the local boating community and indeed those from further afield who have boats on the Middle Level. It appears that there has been little consultation or preparation with regards to the introduction of the license, despite claims from MLC to the contrary. Many in my marina claim to have no knowledge about the plans. Were it not for the cancellation of the ANRC Rally we may all may have been better informed as MLC were due to have presented their plans for licensing during the rally.  Fortunately for MLC they have been able to blame the Covid Pandemic for their ineptitude. I have absolutely no problem with the aims of the scheme, merely with the way in which it is being introduced. Given the level of opposition that I have encountered to the introduction of the license, I believe that the license should have been phased in with a minimal charge in the first year or two with gradual increases over three to five years. This would have allowed the many who oppose the introduction of the license to reluctantly embrace it and become accustomed to it. I am sure the requirement for the BSS will cause many boat owners issues in seeking to comply due to Covid and the time it may take to complete work in order to comply and have their craft tested, in many cases I do not believe the current six months deferral is adequate particularly in light of the current economic downturn. Currently it appears that very few have purchased a licence as we come to the end of the first month of the scheme. Those that have purchased have not benefited from the proposed 25% (12.5% for the half year) discount that was offered when the plan was to introduce the the license on April 1st. Travelling around the ML Waters this week, it appears that there are very few boat registered or at least are displaying the license as required. It is very unfair on those that have sought to comply with the new requirements of the MLC by purchasing a license only to find that the vast majority have not and those who have not appear to be getting away with it.

[Athy]

Which is your marina? Surely whoever runs it should have informed their moorers. Perhaps, as with some marinas on CART waters, boats do not need to be licensed as long as they stay within the marina.

Here in Upwell, it's clear that local boat owners have heard about it. Several long-term moored craft have disappeared, and one n/b has been craned on to the bank along our lane.

[Alan de Enfield]

9 minutes ago, Athy said:

Which is your marina? Surely whoever runs it should have informed their moorers. Perhaps, as with some marinas on CART waters, boats do not need to be licensed as long as they stay within the marina.

Here in Upwell, it's clear that local boat owners have heard about it. Several long-term moored craft have disappeared, and one n/b has been craned on to the bank along our lane.

The MLC agreed (in the House of Lords debate) that it would not apply to boats that never left a marina and there would simply be a 'nominal' fee to cover administration costs.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[WindlassFree]

It is my understanding that MLC expected the marina owners to be instrumental in the introduction of the licence scheme. However, the GDPR Data Regulations prevented this in the way that MLC had expected. This shows naivety on the part of the MLC.

 

For their part, I believe that the marina owners did their best to make boat owners aware of the need to license ahead of the proposed introduction on April 1st. However, I understand that the information that they were given by MLC was minimal and at very short notice prior to lockdown. This is supported by the lack of information on the MLC website prior to lockdown. This highlights the lack of engagement, its a common and recurring theme.

 

With regards to marina based boat dwellers, they pay their mooring fees, therefore, if they do not venture out onto the navigation they should not be expected to pay the licence fee. However, clearly, the requirement to register the vessel provides the MLC with the information required to issue a penalty or legal proceedings against a boat owner should the vessel be found on the navigation without a licence. 

 

It is unfortunate that MLC missed a golden opportunity to engage with the local boating community at the ANRC Rally that was cancelled in May due to the COVID Pandemic. The MLC were due to have presented their case for boat registration charges during the rally, this would have provided the ideal opportunity for a full and frank exchange which appears to have been sadly lacking thus far for many of the boat owners on MLC waters.

 

 

[nbfiresprite]

The whole licence scheme is in a mess with many applications either missing or not been processed, which includes my own. I'm still yet to get a refund as I paid back in March. The last e-mail I had from Kevlin Russell stated 'Hi, When i find out were it is I will put in Fox's office addressed to you. Sorry again I thought it had been processed and posted out to you. Kind regards Kev'. Other than someone on the front desk next door, everyone else who works in the building, is working at home. It does seem that the applications are being processed by anyone who has any spare time from their normal work. I would say that many applications are in someones home office and been put to one side and there is no record of who took it home.  

[GUMPY]

6 hours ago, Athy said:

Which is your marina? Surely whoever runs it should have informed their moorers. Perhaps, as with some marinas on CART waters, boats do not need to be licensed as long as they stay within the marina.

Here in Upwell, it's clear that local boat owners have heard about it. Several long-term moored craft have disappeared, and one n/b has been craned on to the bank along our lane.

I wondered what that was doing up there as we passed last week

 

[Athy]

Just now, Loddon said:

I wondered what that was doing up there as we passed last week

 

Sorry we didn't see you when you came through. We were at home, but probably at work (that sentence makes sense at the moment!)

 

The bloke brought it there five or six years ago, maybe more, after some farm moorings below the lock closed. I certainly photographed it to illustrate my piece on the history of Springers for Canal Boat magazine, which is quite a while ago now. He's a local man who likes to collect things, and he owns that bit of land which goes with a house across the lane where his son lives or lived. It has never moved, except maybe to one side while dredging was being carried out, and the back doors have been staring wide open for at least a year so I suspect it might be a bit damp inside.