PRM gearbox breather

[chevron]

Hi please could someone advise me. Does the breather on a PRM 500 gearbox unscrew from the gearbox and 23a come out with it attached or does the elbow have to be removed first by removing the top plate. I have slight oil coming out the breather oil level is correct.

Many Thanks.

[Tracy D'arth]

It just unscrews from outside.  they are lock-nutted, 2 spanners. I chuck them away and fit a compression brass elbow and a length nylon pipe up to somewhere higher and dry.

[chevron]

Thank you that was my intention so the slight mist of oil runs back down the pipe.

[RLWP]

It is not unusual to find PRM 260 gearboxes with a black blanking plug instead of a breather

 

Richard

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, chevron said:

Thank you that was my intention so the slight mist of oil runs back down the pipe.

I must admit never even looked at my PRM500 breathers (I have twin engines)

 

No sign of any 'oil mist', is it possible that it is 'misting' because of some fault and it may be better to investigate the problem rather than mask it with a modified breather ?

 

 

[David Mack]

47 minutes ago, RLWP said:

It is not unusual to find PRM 260 gearboxes with a black blanking plug instead of a breather

 

Richard

So without a breather what happens as the air inside heats up while running?

[LadyG]

I am gearing up for an oil change, Isuzu 4LB33 plus a PRM120 gearbox. I've got Classic oil [CC] and a filter, any tips?

Not sure what breather pipes look like.

Also the gauze on dolly for fuel tank looks painted over.

EDIT no manuals !

Edited March 16, 2020 by LadyG

[RLWP]

Just now, David Mack said:

So without a breather what happens as the air inside heats up while running?

 

No idea. I'm not saying it is a good idea, just that it isn't unusual to find PRM 260 gearboxes with a black plug rather than a breather

 

Richard

Just now, LadyG said:

I am gearing up for an oil change, Isuzu 4LB33 plus a PRM120 gearbox. I've got Classic oil [CC] and a filter, any tips?

 

Yes - a PRM 120 usually* uses ATF. What does it say on the top of the gearbox?

 

Richard

 

*cue a discussion about old manuals/phone calls to Newage/etc. about oil

[LadyG]

52 minutes ago, RLWP said:

 

No idea. I'm not saying it is a good idea, just that it isn't unusual to find PRM 260 gearboxes with a black plug rather than a breather

 

Richard

 

Yes - a PRM 120 usually* uses ATF. What does it say on the top of the gearbox?

 

Richard

 

*cue a discussion about old manuals/phone calls to Newage/etc. about oil

Made in Coventry.

I do now have the manual/parts list / fitting instructions for the 120, PRM Marine transmissions.

It says use same oil viscosity as engine, I translated this as same oil?

There is a loose brass thing on topside .... breather valve.

There is a big brass nut on top, dipstick.

There should be drain nut, lower case, looking at diagram, this has a bonded seal ?

 

The engine has had little use / servicing, last few years, probably semi synthetic oil, whick looks very clean, I thought I could warm it up then change engine oil, filter, warm it up and change g/box ? Or take it out for a good blast for an hour to remove anything nasty.

 

Edited March 16, 2020 by LadyG

[RLWP]

Just now, LadyG said:

Made in Coventry.

I do now have the manual/parts list / fitting instructions for the 120, PRM Marine transmissions.

It says use same oil viscosity as engine, I translated this as same oil?

There is a loose brass thing on topside .... breather, I assume.

There is a big brass nut on top, I expect it will be dipstick / filler /emptier access?

 

https://www.prm-newage.com/c15-older-models

 

This clearly says ATF, and that is what most of these small cone clutch gearboxes use

 

By all means put in what you like - I would only put in ATF. I've have radically improved the performance of several of these gearboxes by using ATF (like it says on the gearbox)

 

Now, does your gearbox look like the one in this link?: https://www.prm-newage.com/media/File/PRM120.pdf

 

Richard

[chevron]

I am getting a very slight mist from breather this is only since I have removed the trolling valve set up off detailed in another post. My guess is that the gearbox control lever valve is different on a none trolling valve set up. Everything is working ok so I want to look if the elbow is fitted and then possibly exstend the breather upright so the oil runs back in. When I removed the trolling valve there was a oilreturn pipe from the trolling valve to the of the gearbox I left this pipe on and not blanked off but higher than the gearbox everything was ok till I blanked this redundant return pipe off. I might just put it back as a second breather

[LadyG]

37 minutes ago, RLWP said:

https://www.prm-newage.com/c15-older-models

 

This clearly says ATF, and that is what most of these small cone clutch gearboxes use

 

By all means put in what you like - I would only put in ATF. I've have radically improved the performance of several of these gearboxes by using ATF (like it says on the gearbox)

 

Now, does your gearbox look like the one in this link?: https://www.prm-newage.com/media/File/PRM120.pdf

 

Richard

Yep, it is same blue paint as engine, but no mention of ATF anywhere, but 

I will be using API CCin engine.

The paperwork I have specifies API CD, I will get some ATF, will any stuff do ? [joking]

The  owners handbook [pristine circa 2002], suggests oil in g/box to be changed same timescale as engine, is this eccesive in a canal boat?

Edited March 16, 2020 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Yep, it is same blue paint as engine, but no mention of ATF anywhere, but 

I will be using API CCin engine.

The paperwork I have specifies API CD, I will get some ATF, will any stuff do ? [joking]

Actually that is not a joke and a pertinent question. A common brand name for ATX is Dexron and it comes it (I think) three "grades": Dexron, Dexron 2 and Dexron 3. IN my opinion you only need ordinary Dexron so no point in buying more expensive stuff although I don't see why Dexron 3 shoudl do any harm apart  from  to your wallet. If Richard says different then ignore me.

[bizzard]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

I am gearing up for an oil change, Isuzu 4LB33 plus a PRM120 gearbox. I've got Classic oil [CC] and a filter, any tips?

Not sure what breather pipes look like.

Also the gauze on dolly for fuel tank looks painted over.

EDIT no manuals !

Clean the gauze with a bristle brush with a drop of paraffin, petrol or whisky. If the breather dolly is vertical stick a little shelter over it as I'm sure a bit of moisure or rain can pass through it. I made one with a little plastic dome thing, like a largish egg cup stuck on with a blob of glue.  It must be short enough to still breath though. Or use one one of those little Del Boy cocktail umbrellas.

[RLWP]

31 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

 If Richard says different then ignore me.

I wouldn't dare, Tony 

[cuthound]

4 hours ago, LadyG said:

Made in Coventry.

I do now have the manual/parts list / fitting instructions for the 120, PRM Marine transmissions.

It says use same oil viscosity as engine, I translated this as same oil?

There is a loose brass thing on topside .... breather valve.

There is a big brass nut on top, dipstick.

There should be drain nut, lower case, looking at diagram, this has a bonded seal ?

 

The engine has had little use / servicing, last few years, probably semi synthetic oil, whick looks very clean, I thought I could warm it up then change engine oil, filter, warm it up and change g/box ? Or take it out for a good blast for an hour to remove anything nasty.

 

 

If you wipe the gearbox dipstick on a paper towel when you remove it the colour of the oil will show you what type is already in it.

 

If it is a golden colour it is engine oil,  if it is red colour it is ATF.

 

My first shareboat, built in 1992, had a PRM 120 filled with ATF. I was led to believe that these gearboxes were originally filled with engine oil, but PRM soon changed to ATF to extend their life.

[LadyG]

Ok, been to local auto shoppe, some knowlegeable guys in there. 

They checked online and on phone,  spent half an hour on this one, it seems they expected red or maybe yellow oil, anyway their stuff is sort of blue, one bottle had a red flash on label, t'other blue,  I paid under a fiver, and got a printout as the above .pdf "Use transmission fluid".

It's Getriebbeol DCTF-1

febi [manufacturer]

Edited March 16, 2020 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

The internet suggests it is ATF, but not such a common make. I am very surprised they did not stock Dexron

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

The internet suggests it is ATF, but not such a common make. I am very surprised they did not stock Dexron

I don't know, obviously, but it's quite a busy operation and as I was there for 30 minutes, I can confirm they deal with fleet operators, cars, trucks and so on, four guys in sales, others in the warehouse, plus deliveries, part of a group with four depots in Yorkshire. They will order stuff not in stock,, the main man tried to find a specialist ATF for marine PRM 120m but it seems not to exist, maybe 'cos it is relatively light in engineering terms.

Edited March 16, 2020 by LadyG

[Tony Brooks]

Its not specialist stuff and not specifically for PRM mechanical boxes. It is used in most hydraulic power steering systems and as the name suggests automatic gearboxes. Automotive automatic gearboxes put far more demands on the oil than your gearbox could ever do so if there are different grades available you only need the most basic one but it would be OK to use a better one but you would gain no advantage from doing so. As you say, light duty.

[LadyG]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

Its not specialist stuff and not specifically for PRM mechanical boxes. It is used in most hydraulic power steering systems and as the name suggests automatic gearboxes. Automotive automatic gearboxes put far more demands on the oil than your gearbox could ever do so if there are different grades available you only need the most basic one but it would be OK to use a better one but you would gain no advantage from doing so. As you say, light duty.

Transmission (Getriebe)

Mechanics

Description

A transmission is a machine in a power transmission system, which provides controlled application of the power. Often the term transmission refers simply to the gearbox that uses gears and gear trains to provide speed and torque conversions from a rotating power source to another device. Wikipedia

 

On the label it does say "gear oil", and it is made in Germany.

When I bought my filters and alternator belt, I did ask if they were cheapos, but was assured they only sell good quality stuff, trade prices too, Well done SAS Autoparts [no connection]

[Tony Brooks]

I think you need to talk to PRM. "Gar oil" may or may not be Automatic Transmission Fluid. In fact my understanding of juts "gear oil" is that it is not ATF and I would expect the can to carry more information. ATF has  a low viscosity amongst automotive oils while "gear oil" can have the highest. I am a bit concerned that the oil you have may be for autoboxes on things like large trucks, earth movers or agricultural equipment.

 

Here is the page from the SAS site that lists ATF Dexron https://www.partsforallcars.com/za028246

but it seem expensive to me unless its 4 litres.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Tony Brooks

[LadyG]

4 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

I think you need to talk to PRM. "Gar oil" may or may not be Automatic Transmission Fluid. In fact my understanding of juts "gear oil" is that it is not ATF and I would expect the can to carry more information. ATF has  a low viscosity amongst automotive oils while "gear oil" can have the highest.

 

Here is the page from the SAS site that lists ATF Dexron https://www.partsforallcars.com/za028246

but it seem expensive to me unless its 4 litres.

I''ve checked payment, it was £15 exactly, I did not ask price of 5l, which seemed excessive, but not if I need to change at same time as engine and filter.

#Cue call to Newage!

[Tony Brooks]

2 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I''ve checked payment, it was £15 exactly, I did not ask price of 5l, which seemed excessive, but not if I need to change at same time as engine and filter.

#Cue call to Newage!

 

I am somewhat confused by your last two posts. I just posted a link to the oil I would have expected SAS to have supplied you and it is listed at £24 but with no quantity stated. You don't need 5 litres, one litre shoudl be more than enough. I think it may be best to phone SAS and check what they supplied is equivalent to ATF Dexron.

[LadyG]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am somewhat confused by your last two posts. I just posted a link to the oil I would have expected SAS to have supplied you and it is listed at £24 but with no quantity stated. You don't need 5 litres, one litre shoudl be more than enough. I think it may be best to phone SAS and check what they supplied is equivalent to ATF Dexron.

 

Gsf Atf Dexron Vi 1l I take the 1l to be 1 litre

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

 

I am somewhat confused by your last two posts. I just posted a link to the oil I would have expected SAS to have supplied you and it is listed at £24 but with no quantity stated. You don't need 5 litres, one litre shoudl be more than enough. I think it may be best to phone SAS and check what they supplied is equivalent to ATF Dexron.

I've looked on their website for car parts, no sign of the Getriebbeol DCTF-1

I started off asking for Transmission Fluid for PRM 120, and I still don't understand why I may not have the right stuff, esp as they sell Dextron.

I can't get their site search to produce any results, which I think replicates some of the problems the first lad found.

UPDATE

From Newgate: Dexron 2, change annualy.

I'll get a refund. Problem is not the £15 for this change, but next year I need to spend another £15 as I will have some left over, then again ad infinitum as I don't want to mix oils.

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by LadyG