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Should I fill up with diesel today?


David Mack

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18 hours ago, David Mack said:

...if the Chancellor is going to require us to pay full white diesel duty tomorrow?

 

Is he proposing full duty is applied on red diesel for domestic use ?

If not then nothing will change since , on the 60/40 split you have been paying full duty on 60% of the fuel (assuming you have declared the 60/40 split).

 

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17 hours ago, pearley said:

And if it's duty change as opposed to VAT then it applies to new stock when it leaves the depot, not on sales from a boatyard.

 

I think we all know that duty is applied to red diesel at the point of sale from the retailer when you declare the 60/40 split or declare 100% domestic or whatever you decide to declare.

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18 hours ago, pearley said:

And if it's duty change as opposed to VAT then it applies to new stock when it leaves the depot, not on sales from a boatyard.

 

Ah, but....

In my time running motorway forecourts, any price change was dealt with by...

 

Price rise or duty change, up as soon as notified, maximum benefit from existing stocks.

Price drop or duty change, only down once the delivery tanker pulled up to the filling bund.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MartynG said:

I think we all know that duty is applied to red diesel at the point of sale from the retailer when you declare the 60/40 split or declare 100% domestic or whatever you decide to declare.

No, that's a special arrangement for marine sales. If you are running a petrol station the duty is applied when the tanker leaves the distribution depot.

 

51 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Ah, but....

In my time running motorway forecourts, any price change was dealt with by...

 

Price rise or duty change, up as soon as notified, maximum benefit from existing stocks.

Price drop or duty change, only down once the delivery tanker pulled up to the filling bund.

 

 

You profiteer!

We ran petrol stations for some 20 years and went through many duty changes. I used to apply it before we opened the next morning. Back in the 70s we had to break the seals of every pump and alter the mechanical pricing mechanism and change the price on the totem sign, lots of individual plastic numbers. Lot something that could easily be done whilst serving (we weren't self service)

Towards the end we had full electronic control over the pumps and they could all be changed from one central point without breaking any seals.

 

Of course we always had a good idea if the duty was going to rise and a few times the bank raised our overdraft limit to allow us to fill the tanks in advance

 

Edited by pearley
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38 minutes ago, pearley said:

Back in the 70s we had to break the seals of every pump and alter the mechanical pricing mechanism and change the price on the totem sign, lots of individual plastic numbers

I pulled up at a pump in the 70’s that was still operator controlled and the price at the time had increased to more than the pump could be set for. So they set it for exactly half and if you asked for £5 worth they’d pump you an indicated £2.50. Possibly illegal? However the pump operator said “Oh Sorry, I’ve put £10 in - an indicated £5”. I said “Well, I only have a fiver on me”. After suggesting siphoning it back out he eventually said “Will you come back tomorrow and pay the other fiver?”  I promised that I would the next time I passed that way...

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18 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I pulled up at a pump in the 70’s that was still operator controlled and the price at the time had increased to more than the pump could be set for. So they set it for exactly half and if you asked for £5 worth they’d pump you an indicated £2.50. Possibly illegal? However the pump operator said “Oh Sorry, I’ve put £10 in - an indicated £5”. I said “Well, I only have a fiver on me”. After suggesting siphoning it back out he eventually said “Will you come back tomorrow and pay the other fiver?”  I promised that I would the next time I passed that way...

I siphoned a few out over the years. Have been offered a sorts of 'security' for the money owed but how many Timex watches does someone need?

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1 hour ago, pearley said:

No, that's a special arrangement for marine sales. If you are running a petrol station the duty is applied when the tanker leaves the distribution depot.

 

You profiteer!

 

We worked out one year that Watford Gap Northbound made an additional £60k through careful and accurate pricing changes.

Edited by matty40s
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40 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I pulled up at a pump in the 70’s that was still operator controlled and the price at the time had increased to more than the pump could be set for. So they set it for exactly half and if you asked for £5 worth they’d pump you an indicated £2.50. Possibly illegal? However the pump operator said “Oh Sorry, I’ve put £10 in - an indicated £5”. I said “Well, I only have a fiver on me”. After suggesting siphoning it back out he eventually said “Will you come back tomorrow and pay the other fiver?”  I promised that I would the next time I passed that way...

I seem to recall that practice was officially authorised as petrol prices had risen too quickly for petrol station operators and pump manufacturers to keep up. I can remember stickers on the pumps saying that the actual price would be twice that displayed.

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22 minutes ago, pearley said:

I siphoned a few out over the years. Have been offered a sorts of 'security' for the money owed but how many Timex watches does someone need?

On another occasion I had genuinely forgotten my wallet but I was back the following morning to retrieve my watch and wedding ring :)

1 minute ago, David Mack said:

I seem to recall that practice was officially authorised as petrol prices had risen too quickly for petrol station operators and pump manufacturers to keep up. I can remember stickers on the pumps saying that the actual price would be twice that displayed.

I recall it being common but often wondered about the legality. 

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The Guardian thinks it won't happen today:

"Sunak has toyed with pushing up fuel duty for the first time in 10 years, raising around £800m for the exchequer.

It has also been mooted that the policy will include scrapping the £2.4bn diesel subsidy for users of farming and construction vehicles.

Neither is expected to be included in the budget, though they could both feature in the autumn budget".

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15 minutes ago, WotEver said:

On another occasion I had genuinely forgotten my wallet but I was back the following morning to retrieve my watch and wedding ring :)

I recall it being common but often wondered about the legality. 

Happened to me back in the 1980's when credit cards were newish and individual outlets each had their own policy on which they would accept - except that I was not aware that filling stations did this. Filled up at a local station and tendered my only CC which was refused. I did not have sufficient cash. My watch was not worth  taking and they demanded my wedding ring. However, at that stage my ring was not removable and I declined to allow them to sever the finger to access it (Merchant of Venice?). Not wanting to retrieve their petrol they eventually, with bad grace, allowed me to go back home for the necessary cash. Not long after that they accepted both main cards! For a while I always checked each filling station before using it but I have to say that I have not done so in decades!

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2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

The Guardian thinks it won't happen today:

"Sunak has toyed with pushing up fuel duty for the first time in 10 years, raising around £800m for the exchequer.

It has also been mooted that the policy will include scrapping the £2.4bn diesel subsidy for users of farming and construction vehicles.

Neither is expected to be included in the budget, though they could both feature in the autumn budget".

It always irritates me that not imposing a tax/duty on a particular group is often described as a subsidy. On that basis, women are 'subsidised' by changes in the sanitary products VAT rate, along with all those classes of product or services that have specific treatment. At the very least the sloppy language reinforces the assumption that taxation is the norm and non-taxation is the exception. Whilst I am most definitely not a free marketeer nor a minimal tax advocate, I do think that governments should be expected to better defend their taxation policy, tax by tax, rather than be lazy and rely o the publicity about changes, rather than the absolute levels.

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44 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

For a while I always checked each filling station before using it but I have to say that I have not done so in decades!

Ditto. Except... I used a local garage recently that I’ve never used before and discovered that they didn’t accept Amex. First garage I’ve come across in years that doesn’t. 

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4 hours ago, MartynG said:

 

Is he proposing full duty is applied on red diesel for domestic use ?

If not then nothing will change since , on the 60/40 split you have been paying full duty on 60% of the fuel (assuming you have declared the 60/40 split).

 

The speculation is that the use of red diesel will be banned for everything except farming, We will find out the actual in the next hour or so.

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12 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

It amazes me that anyone chooses to pay a fee to get a credit card.

The fee is usually for extra benefits, not the card itself - the concierge service springs to mind.

 

Clever shopping for an AmEx card can get you up to 5% cashback on purchases, which should offset the fees if you do it correctly.

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