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Petter s type


Nick Davis

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Does anyone know exactly how many S type petters are in boats?

I've long fantasised about finding one to go back in Hood as that's what was in the engine room when she was built, think my chances are slim.

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33 minutes ago, Hyperion 53 said:

Chas Hardern is your man

So I take it he's got one in the Dorset?

13 minutes ago, Heritage said:

There is one in OAK, one in the power hall at Ellsmere port and one in Finch think

Great I'll check out Oak and Finch.

I've seen the one at the museum.

Cheers 

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3 hours ago, Heritage said:

There is one in OAK, one in the power hall at Ellsmere port and one in Finch think

 

2 hours ago, Nick Davis said:

So I take it he's got one in the Dorset?

Great I'll check out Oak and Finch.

I've seen the one at the museum.

Cheers 

I have not yet come across a record of what engine was in your HOOD when built so your claim of a Petter S Type is interesting. DORSET has a 12/14hp S Type Petter complete with a reversing gearbox, but 

 

OAK also resides at Ellesmere Port nowadays, but you will need to get access to the warehouse down the road to see it :captain:

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10 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

 

I have not yet come across a record of what engine was in your HOOD when built so your claim of a Petter S Type is interesting. DORSET has a 12/14hp S Type Petter complete with a reversing gearbox, but 

 

OAK also resides at Ellesmere Port nowadays, but you will need to get access to the warehouse down the road to see it :captain:

Hi Pete I've heard or read from a few sources that she had petter engines including a conversation I had with Jenny Glynn the daughter of Ada Littlemore who worked the boat with her husband Dick Littlemore, there's even a mention of Hoods petter in the Book Ramlin Rose.(Ada was the main contributor)

Hood was buy all accounts fitted with an 18/21 but this was replaced only a few years later (quite sensibly) with a 12/14

If I remember/find my written source for this I'll let you know.

She still retains the original engine bearers which are very wide apart and have an enormous cut out for a flywheel 2ft 6 across they've been altered later to accommodate a narrower engine.

According to David Blagrove the petter was replaced with a Jp2 in the late 50s but I have no evidence for this. When j acquired the boat she was fitted with an Armstrong siddely which I was told had need there since the 1970s

The engine bearers are amongst the thickest and longest ive seen and sat on two extra kelsons the ran alongside the normal central kelson for two thirds of her length....definitely a hotbulb arrangement.

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A good bit of anecdotal evidence there, you have done well. I have read Ramlin Rose several times but as it was fiction (but based upon conversations with boaters) I would not have accepted that reference as historical evidence.

 

I have only ever known HOOD with the AS2, and it was certainly fitted prior to 1977. I am sure the JP2 reference relates to the Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. motor of the same name, but I am sure you will have already found these two boats have histories that can be difficult to separate :captain:

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17 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

A good bit of anecdotal evidence there, you have done well. I have read Ramlin Rose several times but as it was fiction (but based upon conversations with boaters) I would not have accepted that reference as historical evidence.

 

I have only ever known HOOD with the AS2, and it was certainly fitted prior to 1977. I am sure the JP2 reference relates to the Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. motor of the same name, but I am sure you will have already found these two boats have histories that can be difficult to separate :captain:

Thanks Pete I can't be certain of anything but I am certain the engine bearers owe their huge dimensions to the installation of a large engine. Thanks for the info about the jp2 in the other Hood maybe the AS2 had been fitted much earlier.

Anything else I can find out would be much appreciated I try to keep an achieve but its difficult to piece its history together as peoples memories fade and 2 Barows Hoods makes it even harder to decipher.

I have also been told that Sheila Stewart had made voice recordings of Ada Littlemore talking about her life including working Hood but I had no luck in tracking them down I have been told that her daughter Jenny may have them but I haven't felt confident to ask.

48 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

A good bit of anecdotal evidence there, you have done well. I have read Ramlin Rose several times but as it was fiction (but based upon conversations with boaters) I would not have accepted that reference as historical evidence.

 

I have only ever known HOOD with the AS2, and it was certainly fitted prior to 1977. I am sure the JP2 reference relates to the Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. motor of the same name, but I am sure you will have already found these two boats have histories that can be difficult to separate :captain:

Most of the information I have is from the Alan Faulkner book I don't know how accurate the information is.

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Thanks again for your help with this Pete

I've looked at a picture from canal and river trust of Hood apparently from 1958 

Visible on the roof is a tall skinny exhaust stack in the right place for an AS2 which I think were made from 53/54ish so perhaps Samuel Barlow fitted the Armstrong then. I'll have a look at earlier pictures and see if the exhaust size and position offers any clues to what the earlier engine was.

Seems I may have been misled re jp2 and 70s Armstrong fitting 

Thanks 

20200308_081729.jpg

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2 hours ago, Nick Davis said:

Thanks again for your help with this Pete

I've looked at a picture from canal and river trust of Hood apparently from 1958 

Visible on the roof is a tall skinny exhaust stack in the right place for an AS2 which I think were made from 53/54ish so perhaps Samuel Barlow fitted the Armstrong then. I'll have a look at earlier pictures and see if the exhaust size and position offers any clues to what the earlier engine was.

Seems I may have been misled re jp2 and 70s Armstrong fitting 

Thanks 

Like HOOD, HYPERION was acquired by Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. in February 1957. When HYPERION was re-registered at Daventry in October 1957 it was noted as having a new cabin and engine, and this is undoubtedly when the AS2 (actually a Parsons Merganser) was fitted. BEATTY was similarly re-engine at this time and both of these boats engines have consecutive serial numbers. I wonder what the serial numbers are for the engine in HOOD (they were on a brass plates on both sides of the of the engine - one side being the Armstrong serial number and the other being the Parsons serial number) :captain:

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2 minutes ago, max's son said:

Petter that dad owned we used to run it in the garage it would bounce round the floor

 

Albert Brookes on the right leaning on his landrover (note bald tryes)

 

Think Dad gave the engine to Gloucester museum 

petter-engine.jpg

I love this picture 

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24 minutes ago, stagedamager said:

Hood now has a Kelvin K3, I'm sure Nick can inform where the Merganser went.

I sold the Merganser to a man who said he had just bought Clee not sure if it was 2007 or 2008 but I think it eventually found it's way into josher Kestrel don't know if it still is.

I didn't take a record of the numbers although a well known boat spotter called Alan Brown often jumped into the engine room and took the numbers I wonder what happened to his note books?

I liked Alan

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52 minutes ago, pete harrison said:

Like HOOD, HYPERION was acquired by Samuel Barlow Coal Company Ltd. in February 1957. When HYPERION was re-registered at Daventry in October 1957 it was noted as having a new cabin and engine, and this is undoubtedly when the AS2 (actually a Parsons Merganser) was fitted. BEATTY was similarly re-engine at this time and both of these boats engines have consecutive serial numbers. I wonder what the serial numbers are for the engine in HOOD (they were on a brass plates on both sides of the of the engine - one side being the Armstrong serial number and the other being the Parsons serial number) :captain:

Interesting stuff thanks 

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6 minutes ago, Nick Davis said:

I didn't take a record of the numbers although a well known boat spotter called Alan Brown often jumped into the engine room and took the numbers I wonder what happened to his note books?

I liked Alan

So did I. 

I have his notes which he sent me about Owl - not that I could ever decipher his writing.

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25 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

So did I. 

I have his notes which he sent me about Owl - not that I could ever decipher his writing.

Those note books would be quite valuable data now, the last time I saw Alan I had to write my numbers down for him....I wish I'd paid more attention.

He had a wicked sense of humour he once told me that "if one more person tells me Hood was built by Nurser's they'll need nursing" hysterical ?

Edited by Nick Davis
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11 minutes ago, Rusty Rivet said:

Looking through some photos I took of the boats in the warehouse at Ellesmere Port, Easter 2018 and think this is the Petter in Oak.

Must have been very noisy for the steerer!

004.JPG

001.JPG

My word that is fascinating! is it in the back cabin? I can't make out a forward/reverse either. Can anyone go to the warehouse?

Thanks for posting it 

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4 hours ago, pete harrison said:

.... this is undoubtedly when the AS2 (actually a Parsons Merganser) was fitted. BEATTY was similarly re-engine at this time and both of these boats engines have consecutive serial numbers.

I believe that Beatty was fitted with an AS2 to replace the Petter in 1955. I was told that it was the first AS2 to be installed in a narrow boat, although I have no evidence to substantiate this. That engine was replaced in 2013 with another AS2 which had previously been a stand-by generator.

Incidentally, the floor plates in Beatty's engine room still have a cut away section to accommodate the Petter water pump.

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2 minutes ago, Nick G said:

I believe that Beatty was fitted with an AS2 to replace the Petter in 1955. I was told that it was the first AS2 to be installed in a narrow boat, although I have no evidence to substantiate this. That engine was replaced in 2013 with another AS2 which had previously been a stand-by generator.

Incidentally, the floor plates in Beatty's engine room still have a cut away section to accommodate the Petter water pump.

Thanks Nick for even more detail amazing!

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11 minutes ago, Nick Davis said:

My word that is fascinating! is it in the back cabin? I can't make out a forward/reverse either. Can anyone go to the warehouse?

Thanks for posting it 

What's the history of Oak? I don't know this boat doesn't look like a normal working boat?

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