Sunk boat at Sunbury lock

[Dave123]

Taken these from Facebook for those that can't follow links to the post. Puzzled as to why the EA tried pulling the boat off the weir when it had apparently been there 2 months. Not been a significant change in water levels over the last few days? Anyway...they now have a fully sunk boat blocking the lock approach.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Maybe they have given the owner 2 months to recover it and now river levels have started to fall they needed to get it clear of the weir 

[Athy]

I wonder what happened? It doesn't look like an old rust-bucket, appears to be quite modern in fact.

[magnetman]

From the photo it seems to have been gobbled up by one of the large radials on the weir so would need removing to avoid damage to the weir. 

 

If it was resting against the piles and Falconbrook pulled it off it would not end up in the radial itself. 

 

I heard from the horse's mouth the other day that the EA tugs will not go out in red boards due to insurance unless it is necessary ie danger to life or infrastructure damage. 

 

I think everyone is expecting the wet winter to continue so best clear something like that before the River comes up again and caused major issues. 

 

Better to have a boat on the riverbed than obstructing or potentially damaging a weir.

The two month thing could be confusion with a boat which had been on Teddington weir guard piles for a long time. 

 

There have been some problems in that general area of boats being untied deliberately.  

 

Very nasty. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by magnetman

[matty40s]

40 minutes ago, Athy said:

I wonder what happened? It doesn't look like an old rust-bucket, appears to be quite modern in fact.

Collingwood by the look of it.

[Athy]

49 minutes ago, matty40s said:

Collingwood by the look of it.

Well spotted! I wouldn't know which features made a Collingwood (especially a semi-submerged one) recognisable. It's hard to tell from the angle but it looks as if it's a widebeam, though several builders have been making those in recent years.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Athy

[ditchcrawler]

2 minutes ago, Athy said:

Well spotted! I wouldn't know which features made a Collingwood (especially a semi-submerged one) recognisable. It's hard to tell from the angle but it looks as if it's a widebeam, though several builders have been making those in recent years.

Maybe because Matty sees a lot more hulls close to than we do

[BilgePump]

Maybe, it's the first decent day, no rain, no floods, no wind. Try and get the job done asap and move it. But nobody removed water in the boat as its angle shifted, no blocking low hull fittings, no boom, no surprise it would end up submerged. Sympathy for the owners.

 

edited: only my observation from the pics. I've no local knowledge

Edited March 6, 2020 by BilgePump

[Flyboy]

By the look of the angle of the tide mark on the hull it's been there for some time.

[magnetman]

Edit to remove incorrect information. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by magnetman

[OldGoat]

Very strange (to me). You have to be doing something completly daft to get caught on that head weir at Sunbury. It's not as though the driver (after all it's a widebeam) would have to slow dow significaantly as the lock itself is way down a reasonably wide cut. Boats naturally keeep to the right there because they can see the lock channel if navigating 'reasonably'. That leaves the possibility that he boat was adrift, but then it should have been drawn alongside the barriers.

I originally thought it was Bell Weir where boats slow down to pick up the lay by...

[Naughty Cal]

There is a lot more rain forecast early next week. Perhaps the boat would have interfered with the operation of the weirs where it had rested?

[magnetman]

41 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Very strange (to me). You have to be doing something completly daft to get caught on that head weir at Sunbury. It's not as though the driver (after all it's a widebeam) would have to slow dow significaantly as the lock itself is way down a reasonably wide cut. Boats naturally keeep to the right there because they can see the lock channel if navigating 'reasonably'. That leaves the possibility that he boat was adrift, but then it should have been drawn alongside the barriers.

I originally thought it was Bell Weir where boats slow down to pick up the lay by...

I just had a chat with my friend on the River which is why I edited my previous post. 

 

The boat apparently came adrift at Walton a while ago and has been sitting against the on the weir guard piles for several weeks. 

 

The EA tugs are not insured to go out unless it is an emergency so I believe that the boat must have moved slightly and the stern  was drawn over the rope between the piles and into the fully open radial gate at the weir. Partially submerging the boat and blocking the weir gate. This is speculation but it would press the EA into action and force them to remove the boat from the Weir for the safety of the weir structure. The obvious outcome will be a sunken vessel. 

 

EA harbour master notice issued today is indicating a sunk vessel in the approach to Sunbury upstream lock cut. 

 

It seems bonkers that a boat sitting on the weir guard piles would not be removed as soon as it was noticed but that is probably a side effect of ridiculous insurance and modern elfin safety. 

 

The River has been lower than current levels since the boat came to be on the guard piles there so it was not a "window of opportunity" to remove it rather it must have been removed because of a serious danger. 

 

It begs the question why were these Weir guard piles and ropes introduced. They are a relatively recent thing on the Thames. I wonder if it's an insurance related issue based on the situation with boats on weirs. 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2020 by magnetman

[OldGoat]

I stop viewing fora when My Management serves a pre supper drink, thus I didn't see your post or read my emails (notices from EA) until this morning.

I'd take a slight issue about guard ropes on upstream weirs - we've been using the Thames  in one way or another for at least 30 years and the ropes were around then - however, it's not a feature that one would make a point of checking (not contradicting you, just a matter or interest, you understand).

 

The EA Thames has had its funds cut to the bone and beyond in recent years and the management is in disarray - that shouldn't affect removal of wrecks, should it?? Perhaps the only large tug available was moored below Teddington lock and couldn't getupstream because both chambers were still blocked buy the burnot out and sunk boats.

I'll ask around and see what I can publish....

[ditchcrawler]

1 minute ago, OldGoat said:

I stop viewing fora when My Management serves a pre supper drink, thus I didn't see your post or read my emails (notices from EA) until this morning.

I'd take a slight issue about guard ropes on upstream weirs - we've been using the Thames  in one way or another for at least 30 years and the ropes were around then - however, it's not a feature that one would make a point of checking (not contradicting you, just a matter or interest, you understand).

 

The EA Thames has had its funds cut to the bone and beyond in recent years and the management is in disarray - that shouldn't affect removal of wrecks, should it?? Perhaps the only large tug available was moored below Teddington lock and couldn't getupstream because both chambers were still blocked buy the burnot out and sunk boats.

I'll ask around and see what I can publish....

But what are the ropes designed for, to hold a boat who loses power in normal conditions or one that breaks free when the river is in spate when you wouldn't expect leisure boats to be about

[OldGoat]

9 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

But what are the ropes designed for, to hold a boat who loses power in normal conditions or one that breaks free when the river is in spate when you wouldn't expect leisure boats to be about

Put to the test - I have no idea!!

I've always assumed that they're there for -'just in case'.

As 'we' have seen recently above Marsh Lock (a complete tree has blocked the navigation at that point) - thus perhaps they're for trapping trees, swimmers, canoists and the River's majority customers - glass fibre vessels...

Steel boats of any description are - in Thames time - a fairly recent occurrrence and narrow / broad canal type boats even more recent. The former type of boats would be caught by the ropes whereas canal boats could 'easily' slide underneath - which is what may have happened in this case?

[MtB]

28 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

I'd take a slight issue about guard ropes on upstream weirs - we've been using the Thames  in one way or another for at least 30 years and the ropes were around then -

 

I'd agree with this. I first lived on a boat on The Thames in 1977 and all the weirs were definitely protected with pilings and guard ropes back then (and long before too IIRC from my days angling the Thames as a child). 

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Steel boats of any description are - in Thames time - a fairly recent occurrrence and narrow / broad canal type boats even more recent.

 

Brindley's Grand Cross of canals connected to the Thames at Oxford as part of a wider plan to link the Midlands to London. So narrow boats must have been a feature of the Thames for more than 2 centuries.

[OldGoat]

2 minutes ago, David Mack said:

 

Brindley's Grand Cross of canals connected to the Thames at Oxford as part of a wider plan to link the Midlands to London. So narrow boats must have been a feature of the Thames for more than 2 centuries.

Ah, but, yes, but - the context here is about steel boats and implied use for leisure.

However, did (wooden) narow beam boats use the Thames from Oxford down to Reading or London in any numbers? The locks were very basic and the towpath very rudimentary - even where they existed. Such books that I have read are not very helpful on matters of detail.

Interesting...

[David Mack]

[magnetman]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

I'd agree with this. I first lived on a boat on The Thames in 1977 and all the weirs were definitely protected with pilings and guard ropes back then (and long before too IIRC from my days angling the Thames as a child). 

Not all weirs had them for example Hedsor Weir at Cookham used to be open and unprotected in the 1990s. 

 

The large black posts with floats around them and ropes between are a relatively recent thing. 

 

Some weirs have been protected for many years but not all of them. 

 

Edit to remove images which defeated my own argument (giggle) 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by magnetman

[mark99]

Looking at the images - the unwary tow-er could have sunk the tow boat in deep water. The widebeam sinking and dragging towboat down at the rear.

Edited March 7, 2020 by mark99

[Rose Narrowboats]

2 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Looking at the images - the unwary tow-er could have sunk the tow boat in deep water. The widebeam sinking and dragging towboat down at the rear.

Which is one of the many reasons why the towing hook on the tug will have a quick release.

 

My grandfather had a near miss in WW2 towing a barge across the bay of Bengal under cover of darkness. He came on watch before dawn as was surprised and alarmed that they had not traveled as far as he expected. A quick investigation revealed that they barge had sunk (fortunately in water considerably shallower than the length of the tow line) and they had been going nowhere for some time but none of the crew had noticed.

[magnetman]

44 minutes ago, mark99 said:

Looking at the images - the unwary tow-er could have sunk the tow boat in deep water. The widebeam sinking and dragging towboat down at the rear.

To be fair the River is unlikely to be deep enough there to sink the tug. 

Also seems probable given the position of the boat that anyone on the tug would be fully aware that the tow is going to be sinking fast. The priority is for it to do that away from the weir structure to avoid a very complicated problem. 

 

 

22 hours ago, Dave123 said:

 

 

The second image shows the boats are not attached by a rope so the wide bean must have found its way into that position by itself. 

 

Falconbrook is usually kept at the Sunbury EA yard which is very close to that weir (couple of minutes away). 

Edited March 7, 2020 by magnetman

[mark99]

The Thames can be very deep in places although most around there is 8-13 foot in the middle.

 

Shepperton there are places over 20 foot deep according to my echsounder. One place was > 30 foot (scour from below weir).

 

But yes, agree, not deep enough there.

Edited March 7, 2020 by mark99