Electoral Roll and Registration of address on a boat?

[doratheexplorer]

13 minutes ago, paddler1 said:

Well I do have a bank account as I bank online and have been allocated a ‘number’ by the bank when I moved on to the boat as my address did not have a postcode. I also have a separate correspondence address. The banking isn’t a problem, it’s the registration I wish to sort out.

I have no planning permission as I do not own the land and quite rightly I pay no council tax as a narrowboat is not classed as a property as it is not on a residential mooring....we go round again.

Not owning the land is not a bar to getting planning permission.  You could quite easily apply, but that would mean sticking your nose above the parapet, which I would advise against.

1 minute ago, paddler1 said:

Good to have ll the replies and I’m glad I shook the tree.

to recap I think you are basically saying that even though I have lived there for over ten years I probably shouldn’t have been doing as the owner of the land does not have permission for ‘residential’ moorings’ so if I want to keep the worms in the can I should just carry on and say nowt to anyone...I get it.

Ten years you say?  *ears prick up*. 

 

If you can provide proof, then the council will agree that you have an established use.  Of course, they may then ask for ten years of missed council tax payments....

[David Mack]

But is the boat on the mooring 365 days a year, or does it go away from time to time? The more time it spends away from the mooring, the more difficult it would be for the planning authority to claim that residential use without planning permission is taking place.

[doratheexplorer]

20 minutes ago, David Mack said:

But is the boat on the mooring 365 days a year, or does it go away from time to time? The more time it spends away from the mooring, the more difficult it would be for the planning authority to claim that residential use without planning permission is taking place.

Very true.  The OP read that the boat stay put though.

[TheBiscuits]

38 minutes ago, doratheexplorer said:

Ten years you say?  *ears prick up*. 

 

If you can provide proof, then the council will agree that you have an established use.  Of course, they may then ask for ten years of missed council tax payments....

I'd be a little bit cautious here.  No one thinks the boat isn't or wasn't allowed to be moored there for ten years.

 

That doesn't make it a valid legal residence though, it just means the OP has got away with squatting in his own boat for years.

 

[paddler1]

Good to have ll the replies and I’m glad I shook the tree.

to recap I think you are basically saying that even though I have lived there for over ten years I probably shouldn’t have been doing as the owner of the land does not have permission for ‘residential’ moorings’ so if I want to keep the worms in the can I should just carry on and say nowt to anyone...I get it.

You are all correct with the responses and I respect them all but BIscuits, you are right, yes I do move my boat up and down for quite a few weekends a year and I also spend a few months here and there around Europe but legitimate or not it was and is my homecoming base and I would be foolish to poke my nose out further than I need to given lol the facts....I suppose I will just have to resign myself to not having/knowing my credit score in the end....ho, hum.

[Jen-in-Wellies]

There was a campaign to get non registered boaters on the electoral role late last year. https://mcvoteface.org.uk/

 

There is also this, electoral commission. Straight from the horses mouth. Also useful if you ever find yourself on remand, or in a mental hospital. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/voter/people-no-fixed-address

 

Actual registration is a local council run thing, so this may explain why some have been able to register on line and others not. Depends on the technological  accumen of the council concerned.

 

Ken

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, paddler1 said:

ou are right, yes I do move my boat up and down for quite a few weekends a year and I also spend a few months here and there around Europe but legitimate or not it was and is my homecoming base and I would be foolish to poke my nose out further than I need to given lol the facts....I suppose I will just have to resign myself to not having/knowing my credit score in the end....ho, hum.

 

If you are using it as your primary residence for more than 28 days per year (on the same mooring spot) then it becomes residential and requires PP

 

More difficult may be the situation where a vessel is used for residential purposes, as a person’s sole or main residence, but does cruise regularly between stays amounting to more than 28 days at its mooring base. Whether there has been a material change of use in the location of the mooring will be a matter of fact and degree having regard to the planning unit and the nature or character of the previous and existing use.

Planning permission not required subject to the individual not living on their vessel at the same mooring location for more than 28 days in any calendar year.

 

Living on board, moored in the same spot for more than 28 days per annum REQUIRES the land to have residential PP

Edited March 6, 2020 by Alan de Enfield

[Jen-in-Wellies]

To get round the mooring without planning permission thing  you could register in any constituency where.you have a connection, as per the electoral commission link above. If there are several possibilities, then pick to suit your political leanings as the votymcvoteface site suggests.

[paddler1]

My I ask, Alan, what source re you using to quote the information you re providing?

if it is written in law, which law?

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, paddler1 said:

My I ask, Alan, what source re you using to quote the information you re providing?

if it is written in law, which law?

Section 55 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 defines the concept of ‘development’ as including the carrying out of building, engineering, mining or other operations in, on, over or under land or the making of any material change in the use of any buildings or other land. Section 57 provides that planning permission is required for the carrying out of any ‘development’ of land. Thus the planning system seeks to control both operational development and material changes in the use of land. In this context the courts have held that changing the use of a vessel floating in water (from, say, leisure to residential use) could be a material change in the use of land over which the water flows.

 

The question that arises is whether the mooring of such a vessel requires planning permission as a material change in the use of land. The point at which the mooring of a residential boat on a waterway departs from an ancillary use of the waterway (which usually would not need planning permission) and moves to a material change to residential use (which usually would need planning permission) needs to be decided on the basis of fact and degree as well as the particular circumstances of a case. The use of the mooring for this purpose is not included in any of the classes prescribed in the Use Classes Order. It is therefore sui generis (not C3 Dwellinghouses).

In this context it is also worth noting that planning permission is usually not required where the residential use of a mooring is for no more than 28 days in any calendar year, since such temporary use is permitted development under Part 4 of the GPDO13.

[paddler1]

Ah, ok and thanks. 30 year old legislation that has not been amended I see but you have me convinced...I do move about a bit but I also live aboard for more than the stipulated 28days in a calendar year so as I have no desire to apply for permission to do this I will return my head under the sand and return to living in my own stress-Free bubble avoiding any confrontation or financial inconvenience to myself using only cash and a wink to get by....cheers all.

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, paddler1 said:

Ah, ok and thanks. 30 year old legislation that has not been amended I see but you have me convinced...I do move about a bit but I also live aboard for more than the stipulated 28days in a calendar year so as I have no desire to apply for permission to do this I will return my head under the sand and return to living in my own stress-Free bubble avoiding any confrontation or financial inconvenience to myself using only cash and a wink to get by....cheers all.

 

[TheBiscuits]

3 minutes ago, paddler1 said:

Ah, ok and thanks. 30 year old legislation that has not been amended I see but you have me convinced...I do move about a bit but I also live aboard for more than the stipulated 28days in a calendar year so as I have no desire to apply for permission to do this I will return my head under the sand and return to living in my own stress-Free bubble avoiding any confrontation or financial inconvenience to myself using only cash and a wink to get by....cheers all.

 

You don't need to do that, it's just better to register where you want to vote via the "local connection" route, rather than giving your boat's leisure mooring as a residential address. 

 

Your local connection might even be that you regularly stay in the area for holidays as you have a boat moored there ...   Daft, but such is the way of the bureaucrats.

 

 

[paddler1]

Ok, cheers biscuits, I may consider this but then I will have give some thought about then maybe voting...another pointless task I fear...I’m off to self-isolate as my head now hurts.

[TheBiscuits]

1 minute ago, paddler1 said:

Ok, cheers biscuits, I may consider this but then I will have give some thought about then maybe voting...another pointless task I fear...I’m off to self-isolate as my head now hurts.

Don't forget that alcohol can kill the virus

 

[paddler1]

???

[RufusR]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:13, DaveP said:

 

If you don't have a fixed abode, then you can't get credit since the bank doesn't have an address with which to serve papers to sue you.  Thus your credit score will marked as an unacceptable risk and no-one will or should lend you money.  As a collorary to this, you won't be able to hold a bank account either under the 'knowing your customers' regulations.  You will be able to get a 'basic' bank account, that doesn't allow an overdraft or a credit card to be associated with it.  If you do have a bank account or credit card, that's the address you should be using for a credit check...

 

This . Do not declare yourself homeless unless you are happy for all your credit , banks accounts etc etc to be cancelled . I know someone who did this and a can of worms is an understatement. It wrecked their life . Do not do it . Stay as you are an don’t vote simples or if it’s thst important get s proper residential mooring paying council tax or move back into a house. 

[Rickent]

On 06/03/2020 at 11:30, Alan de Enfield said:

 

If you are using it as your primary residence for more than 28 days per year (on the same mooring spot) then it becomes residential and requires PP

 

More difficult may be the situation where a vessel is used for residential purposes, as a person’s sole or main residence, but does cruise regularly between stays amounting to more than 28 days at its mooring base. Whether there has been a material change of use in the location of the mooring will be a matter of fact and degree having regard to the planning unit and the nature or character of the previous and existing use.

Planning permission not required subject to the individual not living on their vessel at the same mooring location for more than 28 days in any calendar year.

 

Living on board, moored in the same spot for more than 28 days per annum REQUIRES the land to have residential PP

Are you saying if you spend 3 nights a month for 12 months on a CRT leisure mooring then it is residential and needs planning permision?

36 days and nights out of 365, doesn't sound right.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Rickent said:

Are you saying if you spend 3 nights a month for 12 months on a CRT leisure mooring then it is residential and needs planning permision?

36 days and nights out of 365, doesn't sound right.

 

I am not saying it, the law is 'saying it'.

It is the same law that actually makes C&RTs Winter moorings illegal (but obviously boaters are unlikely to complain when it is to their benefit),

[Rickent]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

I am not saying it, the law is 'saying it'.

It is the same law that actually makes C&RTs Winter moorings illegal (but obviously boaters are unlikely to complain when it is to their benefit),

CRT would never enforce that law though, every leisure mooring they have would need planning permision .

[mrsmelly]

3 hours ago, RufusR said:

This . Do not declare yourself homeless unless you are happy for all your credit , banks accounts etc etc to be cancelled . I know someone who did this and a can of worms is an understatement. It wrecked their life . Do not do it . Stay as you are an don’t vote simples or if it’s thst important get s proper residential mooring paying council tax or move back into a house. 

I am registered homeless. I have lived aboard 31 years,I have a bank account. These agencies don't join the dots up. When I registered as homeless to vote they didn't ask any bank details. 

[Clodi]

On 06/03/2020 at 09:52, doratheexplorer said:

he/she is responsible for tax fraud along

How is it tax fraud?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Rickent said:

CRT would never enforce that law though, every leisure mooring they have would need planning permision .

Not correct.

 

The use of a long-term mooring on a canal for the ‘parking’ and/or maintenance of a vessel between cruises will not usually require planning permission as such an activity is ordinarily ancillary or incidental to the use of the canal for navigation. That will be so even if the vessel at the mooring is occasionally used for overnight stays.

 

Where, however, a vessel or floating structure is used for residential purposes as a person’s sole or main residence, many local planning authorities will regard it as being materially different in nature or character from any previous non-residential use of the planning unit and/or, where appropriate, as having actually created a new planning unit. In such circumstances, it is likely that planning permission will be required for the residential use of the mooring.

 

 

[magpie patrick]

On 06/03/2020 at 10:06, paddler1 said:

Again, thanks for the reply but where has it ever been written that you can’t live on a boat that is moored on private landowners land?...

1990 Town and Country Planning Act, 1991 Planning and Compensation Act, various appeals, case law etc

 

If it's your primary residence it needs (or rather "ought to have") planning consent - it's the mooring rather than the boat itself that is the residence

[Tacet]

12 hours ago, magpie patrick said:

1990 Town and Country Planning Act, 1991 Planning and Compensation Act, various appeals, case law etc

 

If it's your primary residence it needs (or rather "ought to have") planning consent - it's the mooring rather than the boat itself that is the residence

Tsk Tsk.  Planning consent relates to the display of advertisements.  Planning permission relates to s55 development.

 

Is it still the case that no offence is committed simply by the absence of planning permission (or breach of condition)?  It is the failure to comply with an enforcement notice that is the offence?  https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities/37/planning_permission/5 suggests so.