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How to go about salvaging an abandoned canal boat?


SamanthaHickson

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Hey... Can someone please give me some clear direction.

 

There seems to be very quite straight forward laws in acquiring/salvaging a boat on tidal waters but on a canal not so much.

 

There is a canal boat near me that is half sunk, half beached and has been there for the past few years, it seems to have been abandoned. I don't know who owns it and it has no numbers. Is there any way I can salvage it?

 

Thanks

Sam

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39 minutes ago, SamanthaHickson said:

Hey... Can someone please give me some clear direction.

 

There seems to be very quite straight forward laws in acquiring/salvaging a boat on tidal waters but on a canal not so much.

 

There is a canal boat near me that is half sunk, half beached and has been there for the past few years, it seems to have been abandoned. I don't know who owns it and it has no numbers. Is there any way I can salvage it?

 

Thanks

Sam

If this is the boat I'm thinking it is the shell looks in pretty good condition. It's not licensed and it's been looted  but worth salvaging. Not sure of the legal position, but could probably be refloated with a winch from the opposite bank. Good luck 

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Would imagine that CRT hold the responsibility to deal with it, and subject to a court order, would effectively own the boat, with the right to sell it, if it holds any value, to cover their costs (section 7, BW act, 1983).  In terms of you intent to salvage it, I suspect this could be seen to constitute theft, but might be worth discussing with CRT, to se if a deal can be done, should they decide to seize it.

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I think there are only 2 ways you can legally acquire it.

 

1) Locate the current owner, and buy it from them.

2) Wait until CRT have gone through the procedure to seize it, and (assuming its value is demed over £1000), find out where it will then be sold off.

Anything else is unlikely to be legal, I believe.

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34 minutes ago, The Dreamer said:

Would imagine that CRT hold the responsibility to deal with it, and subject to a court order, would effectively own the boat, with the right to sell it, if it holds any value, to cover their costs (section 7, BW act, 1983).  In terms of you intent to salvage it, I suspect this could be seen to constitute theft, but might be worth discussing with CRT, to se if a deal can be done, should they decide to seize it.

Not if it's on the Avon, Bridgewater,  Wey, Basingstoke etc etc

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8 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

I think there are only 2 ways you can legally acquire it.

 

1) Locate the current owner, and buy it from them.

2) Wait until CRT have gone through the procedure to seize it, and (assuming its value is demed over £1000), find out where it will then be sold off.

Anything else is unlikely to be legal, I believe.

Why would it have to be over £1000?

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3 hours ago, SamanthaHickson said:

There is a canal boat near me that is half sunk, half beached and has been there for the past few years, it seems to have been abandoned. I don't know who owns it and it has no numbers. Is there any way I can salvage it?

 

 

No, it is not yours.

 

But back in real life as opposed to  internet forum life  full of armchair experts, the chances of the real life owner surfacing and claiming it back should you raise it and renovate it, are vanishingly small. The risk however is, if they do reappear you'll have to give it back and say goodbye to all your hard work and expense doing it up.

 

On the other hand, given it has NO ID on it, they might be hard pushed to prove it is theirs. 

 

It all depends on your appetite for risk....

 

 

  

Another aspect is doing up a sunken wreck usually costs more than buying a passably decent boat in the first place....

 

 

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Here is something to think about in response to a question asked of a marine lawyer :

 

See the last paragraph :

 

Can I claim a boat that has been abandoned on an inland river in the UK?

Dave Cridland
 
 

So, first off, things you cannot do:

  1. Claim “salvage” and keep the boat. It turns out that salvage rights are to recompense up to 100% of the value of vessel and its contents, and never an automatic right to the vessel. They’re also awarded according to a complicated scale which includes the risk to the salvor (ie, you, here), and just going and getting a boat doesn’t sound like a lot of risk, so you’d be very unlikely to get much of an award. The reason people think you can get the boat is because the salvor can seize the boat until an award is made, and many insurers will simply hand over the boat if the award is anything close to 100% of its value (since otherwise raising the cash etc is hard, and a salvor can’t really avoid it).
  2. Adverse Possession. Boats, along with other movable property (ie, not “real property” - land) don’t count. So it’s much simpler to grab the land itself, if it’s “no man’s land”, than it would be to take the boat on it. It’s fairly straightforward to gain adverse possession - but the rules are complex and it takes at least a decade.

Under UK Law - and assuming that this portion of the River Hull is tidal - then you can, however, salvage the boat and report it as Wreck to the Receiver of Wreck (within 28 days). You then get to hang onto it for a year, while the Receiver tries to figure out who owns it. During that time, you need to find suitable moorings, etc.

After that point, if nobody claims it, the wreck belongs to the Crown, not you - the Crown will typically dispose of it (ie, sell it) and presumably gives you any salvage award at that point.

So what happens it you try to claim it anyway?

It looks like a £2,500 fine, and if you sold the boat abroad, 5 years in prison:

Wreck and salvage law

None of this applies if the boat isn’t on tidal waters - in that case you need the Treasure Act 1996, which I’ve not really looked into, but I suspect something broadly similar applies, with the Crown assuming possession and you getting compensated.

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You could try asking around local boatyards and moorings to see if anyone knows the owner. Or CRT may be prepared to forward a letter on ( but won't give you the owner's name directly). Make the owner an offer, and when the boat is yours you can salvage it. Keep CRT in the loop so they will give you a reasonable amount of time to refloat the boat, get a Boat Safety Certificate and (unless you can CC) a mooring, then you can licence it and be all legal.

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7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

But back in real life as opposed to  internet forum life  full of armchair experts

Not sure that any of the “armchair experts”, who posted before you, had said, or even implied that she could claim it as salvage!  Anyhow, why is you “advice” anymore “expert” than anyone else’s?

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10 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Here is something to think about in response to a question asked of a marine lawyer :

 

See the last paragraph :

 

Can I claim a boat that has been abandoned on an inland river in the UK?

Dave Cridland
 
 

So, first off, things you cannot do:

  1. Claim “salvage” and keep the boat. It turns out that salvage rights are to recompense up to 100% of the value of vessel and its contents, and never an automatic right to the vessel. They’re also awarded according to a complicated scale which includes the risk to the salvor (ie, you, here), and just going and getting a boat doesn’t sound like a lot of risk, so you’d be very unlikely to get much of an award. The reason people think you can get the boat is because the salvor can seize the boat until an award is made, and many insurers will simply hand over the boat if the award is anything close to 100% of its value (since otherwise raising the cash etc is hard, and a salvor can’t really avoid it).
  2. Adverse Possession. Boats, along with other movable property (ie, not “real property” - land) don’t count. So it’s much simpler to grab the land itself, if it’s “no man’s land”, than it would be to take the boat on it. It’s fairly straightforward to gain adverse possession - but the rules are complex and it takes at least a decade.

Under UK Law - and assuming that this portion of the River Hull is tidal - then you can, however, salvage the boat and report it as Wreck to the Receiver of Wreck (within 28 days). You then get to hang onto it for a year, while the Receiver tries to figure out who owns it. During that time, you need to find suitable moorings, etc.

After that point, if nobody claims it, the wreck belongs to the Crown, not you - the Crown will typically dispose of it (ie, sell it) and presumably gives you any salvage award at that point.

So what happens it you try to claim it anyway?

It looks like a £2,500 fine, and if you sold the boat abroad, 5 years in prison:

Wreck and salvage law

None of this applies if the boat isn’t on tidal waters - in that case you need the Treasure Act 1996, which I’ve not really looked into, but I suspect something broadly similar applies, with the Crown assuming possession and you getting compensated.

The OP didn't make it totally clear where the wreck of the canal boat in question is located - Tidal River or not, or EA/CRT canal (unless I've missed it).

As Alan is indicating, the question of Marine Salvage Law can be very involved - the above is only the tip of the iceberg -  and it  is fraught with the sort of thing that keeps specialist lawyers in the manner to which they have been accustomed. As MTB  has pointed out, I  would also be very wary of any so called experts on this forum giving any meaningful advice, and I would suggest that you have to tread extremely carefully if you are contemplating undertaking any such recovery. I certainly wouldn't class myself as an expert, although I was professionally involved in the Marine Salvage and Towing industry for a number of years, and have witnessed at first hand how unstraightforward and drawn out the process can be.  

 

Howard

 

 

Edited by howardang
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1 hour ago, The Dreamer said:

Not sure that any of the “armchair experts”, who posted before you, had said, or even implied that she could claim it as salvage!  Anyhow, why is you “advice” anymore “expert” than anyone else’s?

 

I was referring to your own post 4, as an example of an ill-informed armchair expert just wildly guessing.  And the many threads already here covering the exact same subject. 

 

Just my own ill-informed opinion though... ;)

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, LadyG said:

Why would it have to be over £1000?

Do a search for "BW Section 8 Policy"

 

It is a 13 page document but the forum software will not allow it to be posted on the forum.

 

Here is a screen shot of some of the text following the 'flow-charts' - see last paragraph.

 

 

 

Screenshot (82).png

Screenshot (83).png

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15 to 20 years ago, its been dark a few times since and I have had a few sleeps.  Are you now or have you ever been a dentist  please?

 

A lot of water passed since then both over and under the bridge.

 

I am aware of the Spanish Inquisition but take the 5th. 

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16 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

15 to 20 years ago, its been dark a few times since and I have had a few sleeps.  Are you now or have you ever been a dentist  please?

 

A lot of water passed since then both over and under the bridge.

 

I am aware of the Spanish Inquisition but take the 5th. 

 

Amateur dentist, moi. 

 

How did you KNOW!!!!!!

 

 

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